Honda to produce hydrogen fuel-cell cars this year.

[Elok]

Do you actually know, or are you feeding us a white chocolate story?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Elok
Yes, but if the air can't hold infinite amounts of moisture, it's going to condense on its own on every nearby surface, right? Then it will evaporate, join the clouds, come down again, and so forth. No?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking.

Normally, the idea is that a hydrogen fuel-cell car would emit water vapor as exhaust. Whatever happens to the water later doesn't really matter; it has emissions.

I claimed that if you just store the water vapor until it condenses, [then presumably dispose of the liquid water in some controlled fashion, or reuse it in the cell], you won't have any emissions.

Neither case really matters, because the real issue is that the problematic emissions (pollution, CO2) have been moved to the power plant, which probably burns coal.

[Elok]

Oh, I see. I read "emissions" to mean "problematic emissions," since claiming "nuh-uh, it emits water" is a moronic thing to say. And the car itself is quite free of those, because it shifts the burden to whoever's making the hydrogen. So I thought you were saying you'd need to condense the water before expelling it so it would evaporate properly or something weird like that. I was quite puzzled.

[Kuciwalker]

Don't blame me; Krill was the one who brought out water as an emission

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Krill


Wrong. If you want to go to technicalities, it gives out water which is a greenhouse gas as it absorbs photons in the infrared part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Nevermind the fact that hydrogen has to be produced from energy, at least in part, produced from fossil fuels.

Could you direct me to data showing that the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere has been increasing as a result of humans pumping out more sources of water vapour?

I hesitate to say human activities, because a warmer atmosphere can lead to higher humidity.

[Krill]

Originally posted by Dauphin


Could you direct me to data showing that the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere has been increasing as a result of humans pumping out more sources of water vapour?

I hesitate to say human activities, because a warmer atmosphere can lead to higher humidity.

Non sequitur.

[Krill]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
No it isn't and yes it is, in that order. Hell, you can use home solar panels or wind generators to make your own hydrogen gas to fuel your non-existent hydrogen fuel-cell car right now. There's even a group claiming to have made a simple aluminum-based generator just recently, but it is vaporware until demonstrated otherwise. On the storage side, there have been improvements that don't require super-chilled solutions, but nothing is particularly ready for primetime in vehicles. If Honda and others are serious about offering hydrogen cars in the next decade or so, they'll get on the asses of the oil companies about fitting their gas station with hydrogen pumps nation-wide in preparation, none of this namby-pamby photo-op hubris or this "free market will decide" bullsh*t. The stations are already there, plenty of them can be remodeled to offer one pump for hydrogen gas and the others remain petrol. It will take years, but such preparations should be done and ready in many markets by the time hydrogen cars are available for purchase, instead of just select, meaningless markets that no one cares about. I mean really, they couldn't even go fully into LA, but rather an outlying area? Yeah, TOTALLY ready for primetime.

Did you just agree with me?

[Krill]

Originally posted by Elok


Yes, it emits water, but I somehow don't think that water is going to contaminate the atmosphere. It's my experience that water vapor condenses into clouds and falls down once there's a certain amount up there (one of the little secrets of life on Earth). I suppose it might make our cities unbearably muggy, but that's it.

Are you sure you want to live in the same climate that the UK has? BHecause the last thing I want is more frigging rain thatyouverymuch.

[Krill]

Of course it just passes on the pollution to whatever factory is manufacturing the hydrogen, unless we have a LOT of green power plants running. That was my point with the "tidal plants" remark (no, Snoopy, I'm not that clever).

Yup, which was the second part of one of my previous posts.

[Krill]

And I don't take anywhere near six seconds to read that short sentence in your sig. So

[Krill]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
It seems entirely plausible that you could make a zero-emission hydrogen fuel cell car. Just trap the water vapor until it condenses.

Yeah, it's possible, then you reverse the process by plugging the car into the electric grid and recharging the fuel cell. It just isn't that efficient IIRC.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Krill


Non sequitur.

Cop-out.

[Krill]

pwned

[Dauphin]

What a pleasant Sunday afternoon. I am off down the pub shortly. Hope all that water that's being pumped into the air doesn't fall on me.

[Krill]

You should take a brolly with you as ppe.