Honda to produce hydrogen fuel-cell cars this year.

[DRoseDARs]

@ the news:

This just over-hyped non-sense. Until these things are being sold at dealerships, Honda isn't offering or producing squat. The cars themselves are being leased, and the price tag is apparently well over $200,000 though again, they aren't being sold so it's a moot point. These cars are only being leased in 2-3 cities near Honda-approved hydrogen stations.

Wake me when there's a hydrogen economy for these things.

[Krill]

hydrogen isn't hard to produce. It's just storing it that is the problem.

[DRoseDARs]

No it isn't and yes it is, in that order. Hell, you can use home solar panels or wind generators to make your own hydrogen gas to fuel your non-existent hydrogen fuel-cell car right now. There's even a group claiming to have made a simple aluminum-based generator just recently, but it is vaporware until demonstrated otherwise. On the storage side, there have been improvements that don't require super-chilled solutions, but nothing is particularly ready for primetime in vehicles. If Honda and others are serious about offering hydrogen cars in the next decade or so, they'll get on the asses of the oil companies about fitting their gas station with hydrogen pumps nation-wide in preparation, none of this namby-pamby photo-op hubris or this "free market will decide" bullsh*t. The stations are already there, plenty of them can be remodeled to offer one pump for hydrogen gas and the others remain petrol. It will take years, but such preparations should be done and ready in many markets by the time hydrogen cars are available for purchase, instead of just select, meaningless markets that no one cares about. I mean really, they couldn't even go fully into LA, but rather an outlying area? Yeah, TOTALLY ready for primetime.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Krill
I love the fact they are calling it a zero emission car which is just so much BS.

BS, but still is essentially true, which is rare for BS.

To wit:
Carbon dioxide makes up about .04% of the atmosphere but causes 9-26% of the greenhouse effect.
Water vapor makes up about 1% of the atmosphere and causes 36-70% of the greenhouse effect.

Ergo, although there is about 25 times much water vapor as carbon dioxide, water vapor only contribute twice as much greenhouse effect.

Carbon dioxide is a dozen times more evil per molecule than water vapor.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Krill
Wrong. If you want to go to technicalities, it gives out water which is a greenhouse gas as it absorbs photons in the infrared part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Nevermind the fact that hydrogen has to be produced from energy, at least in part, produced from fossil fuels.

Yes, it emits water, but I somehow don't think that water is going to contaminate the atmosphere. It's my experience that water vapor condenses into clouds and falls down once there's a certain amount up there (one of the little secrets of life on Earth). I suppose it might make our cities unbearably muggy, but that's it.

Of course it just passes on the pollution to whatever factory is manufacturing the hydrogen, unless we have a LOT of green power plants running. That was my point with the "tidal plants" remark (no, Snoopy, I'm not that clever).

And I don't take anywhere near six seconds to read that short sentence in your sig. So

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Elok


Of course it just passes on the pollution to whatever factory is manufacturing the hydrogen, unless we have a LOT of green power plants running.

Or we build the Hoover/Three-Gorges Dam Wonder.

[Seedle]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


Or we build the Hoover/Three-Gorges Dam Wonder.

We already did build the Hoover Dam wonder. Didn't work like the civilopedia said it should. Where is the patch fixing this bug?

Also, who else loves the music that plays for the Hoover dam video on Civ2?

[Kuciwalker]

It seems entirely plausible that you could make a zero-emission hydrogen fuel cell car. Just trap the water vapor until it condenses.

[Zkribbler]

...or wait 'till it rains.

[Kuciwalker]

For the water vapor to rain, it has to be emitted into the atmosphere.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Seedle
Also, who else loves the music that plays for the Hoover dam video on Civ2?

Not as good as the track Hoover Dam by Sugar - off the album Copper Blue, which I used to play constantly while playing Civ 1 in the early nineties.

Ah, memories...

[Elok]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
For the water vapor to rain, it has to be emitted into the atmosphere.

Um, assuming you don't drive your car indoors, isn't it bound to wind up there sooner or later? The air can only hold so much moisture.

[Kuciwalker]

See what I said about having it condense before it leaves the vehicle.

[Elok]

Yes, but if the air can't hold infinite amounts of moisture, it's going to condense on its own on every nearby surface, right? Then it will evaporate, join the clouds, come down again, and so forth. No?

[DRoseDARs]

No.

[/contrarian]