Ross Perot's website is very informative.

[Arrian]

I have long thought the absurd budget deficit was the biggest issue facing America.

Yup. Credit Card Nation. We have to cut spending - a lot, and sustain that until we've paid down the national debt (maybe not pay it all the way off, but get it under control). This requires a long term (25-50 years) plan, which ain't gonna happen for obvious reasons.

My problem, however, with the vast majority of "fiscal conservatives" is that when they talk about controlling spending, they talk exclusively about cutting entitlements. Nary a word about the Pentagon. That, to me, is unacceptable. Both guns and butter have to be cut.

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

Good slides, though there are misleading it a few instances as the comments point out.

Nary a word about the Pentagon. That, to me, is unacceptable. Both guns and butter have to be cut.

Good, because of our budget woes the Pentagon is actually a near insignificant portion. While I support cuts in areas of defense spending, as he correctly points out in the charts mandatory spending is the 500lb gorrila in the room.

[Arrian]

the Pentagon is actually a near insignificant portion

I was using Pentagon to mean the entire defense budget. If you are calling the sum total of what we spend on defense "near insignificant" I'm going to have to laugh at you.

While I support cuts in areas of defense spending, as he correctly points out in the charts mandatory spending is the 500lb gorrila in the room

No way around it. Too many promises to too many people. Now, if we can figure out how to bring healthcare costs under control, perhaps we'd have some more wiggle room elsewhere.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian
Now, if we can figure out how to bring healthcare costs under control, perhaps we'd have some more wiggle room elsewhere.

-Arrian

We could all stop using health care.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Elok
I have long thought the absurd budget deficit was the biggest issue facing America.

All it is is an income transfer.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Good slides, though there are misleading it a few instances as the comments point out.



Good, because of our budget woes the Pentagon is actually a near insignificant portion. While I support cuts in areas of defense spending, as he correctly points out in the charts mandatory spending is the 500lb gorrila in the room.

3.1% of GDP is not "a near insignificant portion" especially when you consider both Congress and the Executive are funding an extra $200 billion to $300 billion per year off the official budget in appropriations bills.

[Asher]

Canada spends 1.1% on military.

[Arrian]

From Wiki (if there is a more accurate source out there, I'm happy to use those numbers instead):

Mandatory spending: $1.788 trillion (+4.2%)
$608 billion (+4.5%) - Social Security
$386 billion (+5.2%) - Medicare
$209 billion (+5.6%) - Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP)
$324 billion (+1.8%) - Unemployment/Welfare/Other mandatory spending
$261 billion (+9.2%) - Interest on National Debt

Discretionary spending: $1.114 trillion (+3.1%)
$481.4 billion (+12.1%) - United States Department of Defense
$145.2 billion (+45.8%) - Global War on Terror
$69.3 billion (+0.3%) - Health and Human Services
$56.0 billion (+0.0%) - United States Department of Education
$39.4 billion (+18.7%) - United States Department of Veterans Affairs
$35.2 billion (+1.4%) - US Department of Housing and Urban Development
$35.0 billion (+22.0%) - State and Other International Programs
$34.3 billion (+7.2%) - Department of Homeland Security
$24.3 billion (+6.6%) - Energy
$20.2 billion (+4.1%) - Department of Justice
$20.2 billion (+3.1%) - Department of Agriculture
$17.3 billion (+6.8%) - National Aeronautics and Space Administration
$12.1 billion (+13.1%) - Department of Transportation
$12.1 billion (+6.1%) - Department of Treasury
$10.6 billion (+2.9%) - United States Department of the Interior
$10.6 billion (-9.4%) - United States Department of Labor
$51.8 billion (+9.7%) - Other On-budget Discretionary Spending
$39.0 billion - Other Off-budget Discretionary Spending
The Iraq war and the Afghanistan war are not part of the defense budget; they are appropriations.

The big ticket items are, in order, Social Security, Defense, Medicare, Unemployment/welfare, Interest on Debt, Medicaid, WoT.

Seems to me that none of those things should be considered sacred (ditto for the rest of the budget, but those are smaller numbers).

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Oh, and while we're discussing this, apparently we're ramming through a treaty with Iraq that gives us ~60 bases indefinitely, grants immunity to our soldiers, lets us detain/kill terror suspects w/o the say-so of the local government, etc. I'm sure that will be very popular over there.

Also, the oil deals are close to being finalized. Shockingly enough, large US and British oil companies will be getting the contracts, on what I have to believe will be very favorable terms. Freedom, baby!

edit: really off the topic of the thread, I know. If I could actually start threads from work, I would, but I can't (most of the buttons, like "start new thread" are just not there for me @ work).

-Arrian

[Ben Kenobi]

So silly.

Military expeditures will drop once the war is over.

I agree with patroklos, there is no reason why domestic spending should be rising so fast. That should be cut, and I think there are plenty of places you could do so.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So silly.

Military expeditures will drop once the war is over.

Is this before or after the wars with Iran, North Korea, and China?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Military expeditures will drop once the war is over.

In 100 years?

[Arrian]

Military expeditures will drop once the war is over.

Which war? The one in Iraq with the fuzzy endgame, the one in Afganistan (with a fairly fuzzy endgame in its own right), or the balance of the WoT? I don't think those numbers are going anywhere but up for the foreseable future.

I agree with patroklos, there is no reason why domestic spending should be rising so fast. That should be cut, and I think there are plenty of places you could do so.

Funny, the spending you are referring has 1.8% - 5.2% increases in this year's budget (edit: there are some larger increases, still in single digits except for Dept. of Transportation, in some of the smaller line items). The only section of the budget that has a spending cut is, whaddya know, the department of labor. The parts that you are defending as inviolate, meanwhile, are rising between 12.1% and 45.8%, without fully accounting for the two wars!

Hmm.

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

Which war? The one in Iraq with the fuzzy endgame, the one in Afganistan (with a fairly fuzzy endgame in its own right), or the balance of the WoT? I don't think those numbers are going anywhere but up for the foreseable future.

If you look at the increas in spending over the last few years, mandatory spending outpaced military spending increases even with two wars.

Perhaps insignificant was a but of an exaggeration, but the effort to reign in spending will not hinge on defense spending.

[Patroklos]

The relevant chart...

In this chart the blue line, Total Discretionary Spending, is the sum of the red line, Defense Spending plus the green line, Non-Defense Spending. For example, in 2007 Defense Spending was 3.9% of GDP while Non-Defense Spending was 3.6%. Therefore, Total Discretionary Spending was 7.5% of GDP as shown in the chart.

Non-Defense Spending has remained remarkably stable at an average of 3.9% of GDP—fluctuating in a very narrow band between 3.3% and 5.2% during the previous 46 years. As a result of the relatively flat line for Non-Defense spending, it easy to see that Defense Spending has been the victim of the “crowding out” effect of the increase in Mandatory Spending.