Firefox 3 final is out now.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Microsoft

It's a nice gesture.

[Locutus]

Wow, this thing is buggy for me. Some pages are loading extremely slowly, others not at all or give weird error messages and when I try to visit any page on the domain civfanatics.com it actually tries to load the same URL but with apolyton.net as domain Any Lifehacker page gives either a 404 (when I had no trouble loading the same page just a few minutes before on FF2) or is forwarded to https://lifehacker.com:19638/welcome/ -- a page that AFAIK I've never visited before in my life -- and that gives a failed to establish a secure connection error I immediately disabled all my extensions of course, but that seems to make little difference. For that matter, half the extensions I have say they're not compatible with FF3 when according to my previous research they should be.

In itself I'm impressed by the transition from 2 to 3 (much better than from 1 to 2), it even almost flawlessly copied over my very strongly customised UI (except that it removed the forward/back buttons from the menu bar, presumably because of their new, larger design), but I guess that might just be why it's not working for me, I guess some of my custom settings are not very well-suited for FF3... I guess I'll have to start undoing all of of them Anyone know if there's a restore all defaults for about:config and the preferences screens without completely destroying my profile?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Sure, a few simple ones,

Firefox does not apply colours to horizontal rules. (Unless you do it it a certain way, I forget how now)

Padding on table rows is screwy

Table positioning is screwy.

Table borders don't work.

Mozilla's solution? Use CSS! Come on, sometimes CSS takes time to prepare; HTML is just faster when you don't have the time.

CSS is the business standard, and nobody I know (by that I mean, nobody that I work with) would develop a site without CSS. It is the ONLY way to ensure consistent site design.

It's also not any harder than not using CSS, if you are just using inline code... 10% of the time it is just as much work, and 90% of the time it is less work.

Unless you're telling me

< td border='1' >
blah
< /td >
< td border = '1' >
blah
< /td>
.. x500

is easier than doing it once in CSS at the top and then just using < td > by itself?

[FrostyBoy]

Please. What is so difficult about rendering this line: < hr color=#CCCCCC size=1 >

Nothing! It's basic and standard. IE can do it, so why has Mozillza chosen not to?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Locutus
Wow, this thing is buggy for me. Some pages are loading extremely slowly, others not at all or give weird error messages and when I try to visit any page on the domain civfanatics.com it actually tries to load the same URL but with apolyton.net as domain Any Lifehacker page gives either a 404 (when I had no trouble loading the same page just a few minutes before on FF2) or is forwarded to https://lifehacker.com:19638/welcome/, which gives a failed to establish a secure connection error I immediately disabled all my extensions of course, but that seems to make little difference.

All I can say is WTF. 404 is a server-returned error, you're also getting DNS issues (which is resolved outside of FF completely at the OS level), etc.

It sounds to me like you use Linux and Linux is being Linux to you.

Just use Windows already, how can you deal with this **** on a regular basis?

[Locutus]

I'm on Windows XP, Linux is for hippies

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Please. What is so difficult about rendering this line: < hr color=#CCCCCC size=1 >

Nothing! It's basic and standard. IE can do it, so why has Mozillza chosen not to?

It's a concept called "standards". IE does a LOT of **** it's not supposed to. Starting in IE8, it won't either.

You're a crap web developer writing crap code and until now, a crap browser let you get away with it. I suggest you read the standard and figure out the basics of web development, including using CSS.

In more detail:

1. You should be using quotes around values (color="#CCCCCC").
2. There is no "color" attribute for HR as per the HTML spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/graphics.html

Epic fail, Frosty...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Locutus
I'm on Windows XP, Linux is for hippies

Then you're doing something else very, very wrong.

[FrostyBoy]

Originally posted by snoopy369


CSS is the business standard, and nobody I know (by that I mean, nobody that I work with) would develop a site without CSS. It is the ONLY way to ensure consistent site design.

It's also not any harder than not using CSS, if you are just using inline code... 10% of the time it is just as much work, and 90% of the time it is less work.

Unless you're telling me

< td border='1' >
blah
< /td >
< td border = '1' >
blah
< /td>
.. x500

is easier than doing it once in CSS at the top and then just using < td > by itself?

I use CSS, I am simply saying, why can IE support basic HTML, but Firefox can't?

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
I use CSS, I am simply saying, why can IE support basic HTML, but Firefox can't?

The HTML you quoted isn't even close to being standards compliant. It is using non-existent HTML attributes in an invalid HTML syntax and you are seriously wondering why it doesn't work?

Who the **** is stupid enough to pay you to do web development??

There is an HTML standard. HTML was developed by an industry group with specific standards. IE, until IE8 comes out, didn't care about standards. They did things their own way as they saw fit. IE8 will default to standards-compliant mode when it comes out, so crap code like the stuff you just gave us won't work in IE soon enough either.

WRITE VALID HTML IF YOU WANT IT TO WORK.

[snoopy369]

Firefox does support basic HTML, it just doesn't support lots of the crud MS created back in the IE5 days. Firefox supports everything that meets the standard, just as it should.

Would you suggest that a C++ compiler accept

void main();
msgbox("Hello World!");
end sub;

???? Because that's what IE5-7 basically does (well, IE7 does it under protest at least).

Web pages should be written properly. I am more than willing to allow for pages designed before the standard was finalized, or in an older standard; but it has been a long time now, more than enough time for most pages to be up to date... and certainly anything new that is created.

[Asher]

Frosty doesn't know C++, snoopy.

He draws pretty pictures and makes malformed HTML-driven webpages. C++ is not even close to being in his league.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Mr Snuggles

The HTML you quoted isn't even close to being standards compliant. It is using non-existent HTML attributes in an invalid HTML syntax and you are seriously wondering why it doesn't work?

I was wondering when someone would catch that

[FrostyBoy]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Firefox does support basic HTML, it just doesn't support lots of the crud MS created back in the IE5 days. Firefox supports everything that meets the standard, just as it should.

Would you suggest that a C++ compiler accept

void main();
msgbox("Hello World!");
end sub;

???? Because that's what IE5-7 basically does (well, IE7 does it under protest at least).

Web pages should be written properly. I am more than willing to allow for pages designed before the standard was finalized, or in an older standard; but it has been a long time now, more than enough time for most pages to be up to date... and certainly anything new that is created.

Ok, HR was a bad example, but my point is, Mozilla relies on CSS entirely, But IE can be more flexible. I am a person who likes flexibility, I don't like constriction. Don't get me wrong, I use CSS all the time.

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy


Ok, HR was a bad example, but my point is, Mozilla has relies on CSS, But IE can be more flexible. I am a person who likes flexibility, I don't like constriction. Don't get me wrong, I use CSS all the time.

You are completely and utterly wrong.

Mozilla, Opera, and Apple/Webkit code to the standard for HTML and CSS. Microsoft, until VERY recently, did not.

What you want is for everyone to adopt non-standard code (which is not properly designed) just so no-talent web developers don't need to use superior technologies because they don't understand them yet?

Look, Frosty, CSS is simple. HTML is a text markup language (that's what TML means, by the way). CSS is the way of adding style to this text.

You don't seem to have any fundamental idea of what HTML is and how CSS complements HTML, because you want to do things that should logically and technically be done in CSS via HTML, just because IE4 accepted it back in the mid 90s.

I very much wish I could smack you right now. Man up and figure out when to use which technology. Web development is something children can do, so perhaps one day you can manage it.