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  • “If you come back here and get beat up, well you have been warned.”


    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service


    Christians 'told not to preach'

    Two Christians claim a police community support officer told them to stop leafleting in an area of east Birmingham where many Muslims live.

    The Christian Institute has complained to West Midlands Police the men were told to leave Alum Rock Road.

    The US Christians said they were advised they were committing a hate crime by trying to convert Muslims.

    West Midlands Police has investigated the complaint and said the officer intervened to defuse a row.

    Arthur Cunningham and Joseph Abraham, a pastor at Grace Bible Fellowship Church, in Saltley, Birmingham, had been distributing leaflets in nearby Alum Rock on 19 February when the police support officer (PCSO) intervened.

    Apology demanded

    They claimed he warned them to leave the area, saying: "If you come back here and get beat up, well you have been warned."

    Mr Cunningham and Mr Abraham then agreed to leave.

    The men, backed by the Christian Institute, have complained to the force, saying their human rights were infringed.

    They have also demanded an apology and damages.

    A West Midlands Police spokeswoman said the complaint had been investigated by the force.

    She said: "The investigation concluded that the PCSO acted with the best of intentions when he intervened to diffuse a heated argument between two groups of men."

    The spokeswoman added that following the investigation the PCSO had been offered "guidance around what constitutes a hate crime as well as his communication style".



    More detail from the Birmingham Post:






    Christian group says guidance needed on freedom of speech

    Jun 3 2008 By Neil Connor, Chief Reporter

    Two Christian preachers who claim they were stopped from handing out Bible extracts in a Muslim area of Birmingham are calling on police to state clearly their policy on freedom of speech.

    Arthur Cunningham and Joseph Abraham, from the Grace Bible Fellowship Church, in Saltley, had been distributing leaflets in nearby Alum Rock when a police community support officer (PCSO) intervened.

    The pair claimed the PCSO warned them to leave the area as they were committing a hate crime by trying to convert Muslims.

    West Midlands Police has investigated the complaint and said the officer intervened with the best of intentions to defuse a “heated argument”.
    The force, however, did give the PCSO “guidance” around what constitutes a hate crime after the incident.

    But the two Christians claim that residents in Alum Rock still believe they are not permitted to preach in the neighbourhood as the police have not told them otherwise.

    The Christian Institute, which is backing the men’s legal claims against West Midlands Police for infringing their civil liberties, is calling on Chief Constable Paul Scott-Lee to publicly state that the actions of the PCSO were wrong.

    Mr Cunningham also said the police should issue a public statement outlining the rights that people of all religions have for freedom of speech.
    He said: “We want to have some kind of statement from the police saying that what happened was incorrect.

    “We want something that we can show to the people of Alum Rock to say that what we are doing is not illegal. The police have said to us that it is not illegal, but we are still being told when we go to Alum Rock that we are not allowed to speak to people.”

    Mr Cunningham also criticised the police investigation into the incident as the force did not speak to witnesses. He said the force is refusing to apologise for the incident and the men have been told to go to the Independent Police Complaints Commission if they want their claims to be investigated further.

    Christian Institute spokesman Mike Judge said: “The action West Midlands Police has taken does not reflects the seriousness of this incident and, because of this, the Chief Constable should issue a public apology.

    “But because the police are refusing to do this, these two Christians have no option but to take this issue to court as they have had their civil liberties infringed.”

    The Christians claimed they were warned by the PCSO to leave the area. They alleged he said: “If you come back here and get beat up, well you have been warned.”

    They also claimed that the Muslim PCSO started ranting at them about George Bush and American foreign policy when he realised that the were from the US. The pair have demanded an apology and damages.

    The Bishop of Rochester, the Rt Rev Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, recently said communities dominated by radical Islam give a hostile reception to Christians and those from other faiths.

    A West Midlands Police spokeswoman said the complaint had been investigated by the force. She said: “The investigation concluded that the PCSO acted with the best of intentions when he intervened to diffuse a heated argument between two groups of men.”

    The spokeswoman added that following the investigation the PCSO had been offered “guidance around what constitutes a hate crime as well as his communication style”.

    Town halls should consider mapping their areas religion by religion to help combat Muslim extremism, the Government suggested today.
    Guidance to local councils suggested the move as part of a wide-ranging package to identify and challenge Islamists, including a new national “de-radicalisation” programme.

    The scheme will seek to reverse the process of indoctrination carried out by al Qaida-related extremists, using unnamed “specialised techniques”.

    The document also said councils should make sure they have systems to remove funding or other support from inappropriate groups.

    The guidelines said: “A deeper understanding of local communities should be developed to help inform and focus the programme of action - this may include mapping denominational backgrounds and demographic and socio-economic factors.”

    Local groups that challenge the messages of violent extremists should be supported, it went on. But councils should be prepared to ask police to vet anyone involved in projects that receive government anti-radicalisation funding, it urged.

    If a group is found to be promoting violent extremism, local agencies and the police should consider disrupting or removing funding, and deny access to public facilities, the document added.

    The Home Office announced an extra £12.5 million will be available this year specifically to help institutions or individuals which may be vulnerable to radicalisation.

    Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said: “The national security challenges we face demand fresh approaches. A key element of our strategy aims to stop people getting involved in extremist violence.

    “We are investing at local level to build resilient communities, which are equipped to confront violent extremism and support the most vulnerable individuals.”

    The measures on “de-radicalisation” are based on examples overseas and on a scheme in Leicester which “aims to encourage young people to feel more valued and to eradicate myths and assumptions which lead to young people becoming alienated and disempowered”.



    Dhimmitude

  • #2
    So, what was in those pamphlets they were distributing? They had a right regardless of content, but if they were tossing around Jack Chick tracts telling them that they worship Satan, I'd be inclined to sympathize more with the cop.
    1011 1100
    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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    • #3
      way to fist, love doctor.

      Typical attitude of police. Damn them for making me side with Xians.
      I'm consitently stupid- Japher
      I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Elok
        So, what was in those pamphlets they were distributing? They had a right regardless of content, but if they were tossing around Jack Chick tracts telling them that they worship Satan, I'd be inclined to sympathize more with the cop.
        They were bible extracts, apparently. Here's Melanie Phillips' take - she is, erm, stridently opposed to Islamism asserting itself over British law.



        Weekly magazine featuring the best British journalists, authors, critics and cartoonists, since 1828


        There can hardly be a more graphic illustration of Britain’s helter-skelter slide into dhimmitude that this story:

        Two Christian preachers were stopped from handing out Bible extracts by police because they were in a Muslim area, it was claimed yesterday. They say they were told by a Muslim police community support officer that they could not preach there and that attempting to convert Muslims to Christianity was a hate crime.

        The community officer is also said to have told the two men: 'You have been warned. If you come back here and get beat up, well, you have been warned.' A police constable who was present during the incident in the Alum Rock area of Birmingham is also alleged to have told the preachers not to return to the district.

        The noteworthy point about this incident is that it was a Muslim police ancillary officer who was involved. He did not uphold the law of the land, which gives people the freedom to say in public whatever they want within the law. Instead he upheld the Islamist principle that this particular area of an English city was a Muslim area, within which it was not permissible to do anything contrary to Muslim principles such as preach Christianity.

        When the Bishop of Rochester recently warned that Britain was developing Muslim no-go areas, he was denounced the length and breadth of the establishment, with government ministers and bishops falling over each other to declare that they did not recognise the country he was describing. ‘There are no no-go areas in Britain’ they all declared. Well, here it is, in glowing technicolour and flashing lights, in Alum Rock Birmingham. What are they all saying now, those government ministers and bishops of the Church of England, to a situation where in the heart of England a British police support officer, employed by the British state to enforce the law of England, aggressively prevents Christians from preaching the established faith of England on the grounds that this is now a ‘hate crime’?

        This is not a one-off. Alert readers will note that it was the West Midlands police force which tried to prosecute the Dispatches TV programme for revealing the true ‘hate crime’ in Britain’s so-called moderate mosques which preach hatred of the west and sedition. This in turn is only the tip of a much bigger iceberg. Up and down the country, police forces led by politically correct imbeciles are recruiting large numbers of Muslims, mainly as police community support officers like the officer in Alum Rock, in order to ‘build bridges’ with the Muslim community, and with minimal or non-existent security vetting in case they upset or offend the said Muslim community. The result is, among other things, the development of Muslim no-go areas enforced by British police officers.
        Welcome once again to Londonistan.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Theben
          Typical attitude of police. Damn them for making me side with Xians.
          What also riles me is that it is left to right-wing commentators like Phillips to spell out the details and implications. For so-called liberal-left papers like the Guardian and Independent it is not even newsworthy. These papers seemingly have little respect for secular democracy and freedom, in the face of a rage-boy islamist community support officer abusing his authority, and his appeasing copper bosses.

          Comment


          • #6
            They're annoying but preachers seeking converts is not a hate crime. Those cops should be fired immediately for claiming it was a hate crime. The people who tried to beat up the missionaries should get nice lengthy jail sentences forr violent assault though. Oh, and the muslim cop who refused to uphold the law should be immediately fired.
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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            • #7
              What also riles me is that it is left to right-wing commentators like Phillips to spell out the details and implications. For so-called liberal-left papers like the Guardian and Independent it is not even newsworthy. These papers seemingly have little respect for secular democracy and freedom, in the face of a rage-boy islamist community support officer abusing his authority, and his appeasing copper bosses.


              Leftists prefer to focus on how foreign cultures and customs are progressively enriching our Western society.

              When, despite their great care, they're distracted by reality, it throws them off base. But only momentarily of course. This will get brushed away soon enough.

              Comment


              • #8
                For some reason I reminded of the scene in Die Hard 3 where McClane is in Harlem wearing a sandwich board saying "I hate ******s".
                One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dauphin
                  For some reason I reminded of the scene in Die Hard 3 where McClane is in Harlem wearing a sandwich board saying "I hate ******s".
                  Not quite, but one to discuss in the pub, I think. Which reminds me, we should arrange something...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    for the non britishly inclined, PCSOs arent real coppers, they are barely trained cop wanabees in high visability vests thrown out onto the streets to keep a lid on rampant minor crime like pissing in doorways
                    Safer worlds through superior firepower

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                    • #11
                      Cort, there are obviously differences in key respects. What made me think of it is that regardless of the rights and wrongs there is a pertinent pragmatic question - why would you want to do it?

                      And the pub sounds good.
                      One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dauphin
                        there is a pertinent pragmatic question - why would you want to do it?
                        To save the unfortunate infidel from eternal damnation and to give them the chance to open up their hearts to Our Saviour The Lord Jesus Christ, why else?



                        (For more details, PM Ben or Elok)

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                        • #13
                          Well, you can guess what I think of it. Call it whatever you want, but not a hate crime. Oh well, it's the way things moving here in Europe. Believe whatever you want, but if you say it to anyone and it's an absolute, shut up.
                          Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10
                          I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
                          Also active on WePlayCiv.

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                          • #14
                            (For more details, PM Ben or Elok)
                            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
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