Macedonia

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
That's what I keep saying

i have already responded to that. it's not just the name.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by MarkG
i have already responded to that. it's not just the name.

Yes it is.

[Sir Og]

Here is what most Bulgarians think:
- Macedonians are Bulgarians. They speak (a dialect) the same language . They used to call themselves Bulgarians untill less than 70 years ago. There are no Macedonian books before the 1950's. Greece's possition is stupid.

Here is what the government's position is:
- Bulgaria was the first nation to recognise Macedonia. Every Macedonian can receive a Bulgarian passport (this has become slightly more dificult now that we are in the EU). We had objections to them claiming the existance of Macedonian language but eventually this is no longer an issue. As our president said we did not speak about the language we spoke in the language. Greece's possition is stupid.

Here is what I think:
-Macedonians are Slavs that speak some dialect of Bulgarian language. They were messed with far too many times by all the neighbouring countries and now they want to create thir own nationality and they want to be called Macedonians and want to call their language Macedonian. I am cool with that, they can call themselves Marsians for all I care. What is really stupid is how hard they try to create their own history to somehow justify and reinforce their nationality. It is a fact the gratest "scientific" breakthroughs in Macedonia are related to history and lingustics. I understand why some people are pissed by some of the more outlandish claims made by Macedonian historians. Greece's possition is stupid.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Sir Og
Greece's possition is stupid.

Here is what the government's position is:
Greece's possition is stupid.

Here is what I think:
Greece's possition is stupid.

QFT

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MarkG
when you present some facts to what you described as a "theory", I will
you can start with how the ancient greeks (sans the macedonians) were displaced (where? by whom?)

They were displaced by the Slavs and then the Turks.

[chequita guevara]

Every country and nation is based on myths and lies. Macedonia is no different from any other country in this regard.

Attempting to sort out who is who, in an area that is the cross roads of Europe is an exercise in futility. The reality is the Greeks think they're superior to everyone else and they have sole claim to the history and ancestry of the region.

[MarkG]

1) FYROM can get their own myths and lies instead of stealing ours

2) History is only a part of the issue. There is also the issue of territorial, human rights, etc claims

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by MarkG
There is also the issue of territorial, human rights, etc claims

OMG teh evil Macedonian superpower is out to conquer poor little Greece and deny its citizens human rights!

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by MarkG
1) FYROM can get their own myths and lies instead of stealing ours

Nations have stolen other nation's myths since the begining of time why should te future be any different?

[Barnabas]

Fyromites are newcomer slavs.
Them calling themselves macedonians make as much sense as the portugeuse calling themselves hurrites.

At least the greeks are closely related to ancient macedonians.

I could maybe tolerate it if the Macedonianness they claim were just gegraphical, but they also claim Alexander as theirs and stuff. Maybe Bulgarian Macedonia would be an aceptable name.

[chequita guevara]

Maybe we should just let them call themselves whatever they want.

[Heraclitus]

You can't call someone who has lived there since the 7th century AD a newcomer.

In my view this has some similarity to the Israel-Palestinian issue, but there the dispute is over land rather than titles.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Maybe we should just let them call themselves whatever they want.

[Barnabas]

Modern Turks, for sure most of them have greek christian ancestors , don´t claim Thales of Miletus as a Turk. Fyromites should do the same.

It is the greeks who are being reasonable in this issue, those who ridiculize Greece don´t care about truth. They are like those who say : Who cares if black americans think Cleopatra was a black woman, let them believe that if it makes them happy. It is no big issue! "Macedonia" is a poor exyugoslav republic, if they think their ancestor Marched all through Iran 2300 years ago, let them believe it!

Modern Greeks are the remnant of the Greeks who were not turkified and islamized during the last 700 years. I think they have a right to defend their heritage.

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Maybe we should just let them call themselves whatever they want.

moral relativism You don´t care about truth