You definitely have to have an opinion about this

[Lancer]

Apolyton

I get sick of the silly crap from the mods though I always end up staying for the people. Once in a while I vanish for a few months, maybe I'll do that.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Agathon
No I didn't. Can't you ****ing read?

"Again, no-one is holding you personally responsible..." - Agathon to rah

"You are a US citizen. Your government's wrongs are your problem." - Agathon to rah, expressing how rah is personally responsible for US government action.

"Stop trying to avoid your responsibilities!" - Agathon to rah, expressing sentiment that rah is trying to avoid his personal responsibility.

Holding someone "personally responsible" is when you assign said responsibility to said person.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Lancer
Apolyton

I get sick of the silly crap from the mods though I always end up staying for the people. Once in a while I vanish for a few months, maybe I'll do that.

Mods aren't worth it. Just pretend they don't exist. Like I do. I don't even know who the mods are. I could even be a mod. You could be a mod. Who knows? (I think I am in fact, though like a really low down on the chain with absolutely no powers whatsoever mod).

Besides, someone has to stay around to make sure to "buhmpt" the picture threads for NetNet.

[Lancer]

Oh crap, that's right! I can't leave.

[Aeson]

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Elok


Supposedly he became a Buddhist monk and disconnected himself from the world. We'll see how long it lasts.

The point is, he was disconnected from the world already. He merely made it official.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Aeson


"Again, no-one is holding you personally responsible..." - Agathon to rah

"You are a US citizen. Your government's wrongs are your problem." - Agathon to rah, expressing how rah is personally responsible for US government action.

"Stop trying to avoid your responsibilities!" - Agathon to rah, expressing sentiment that rah is trying to avoid his personal responsibility.

Holding someone "personally responsible" is when you assign said responsibility to said person.

You dumb *****.

There is personal responsibility and there is the responsibility you accrue as a citizen. The latter is "personal" only by equivocation. Rah is arguing that he isn't personally responsible (i.e. he didn't do it) for slavery, but that in no way means he isn't personally (i.e. he has to do something about it, because it's his government) responsible for fixing it.

If I hadn't spent a few posts meticulously explaining the difference between individual and civic responsibility (i.e. your responsibility for what you do and for what your state does), I would accept your complaint. But since I did, it means that you are obviously illiterate.

Jesus ****ing Christ... LEARN TO READ!!!

[SlowwHand]

I don't think the current white population owes the current black population a damn thing, other than to be treated like anyone else.
This "YOU did this to my great great great grand daddy" doesn't quite cut it.
I didn't do anything, I owe no one anything more than they earn. End.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Aeson
He had a pre-leaving forever event.

Come to think of it, I did see that.

Didn't see how it evolved though.

Very strange.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Agathon
If I hadn't spent a few posts meticulously explaining the difference between individual and civic responsibility (i.e. your responsibility for what you do and for what your state does), I would accept your complaint. But since I did, it means that you are obviously illiterate.

Jesus ****ing Christ... LEARN TO READ!!!

Ah, got your panties in a bunch do you?

"Meticulously crafted" **** is still ****. Especially when you try to pretend it applies where it explicitly does not.

"no-one is holding you personally responsible..."

You definitely are holding rah (and all taxpayers) personally responsible for the restitution of the debt you attribute to the government. Perhaps you meant to say that no one was saying rah was responsible for the actual acts involved? If so, you should have "meticulously crafted" your statement to actually include that qualification. But indeed you did not. You failed to qualify whether you were talking about responsibility for the debt or act in the statement I quoted.

Further, you were responding to rah, who was clearly talking about monetary compensation through taxation as being held "personally responsible". (Which is understandable, since that is the only form of applied "personal responsibility" for the acts that had been introduced into the thread.)

"It gets to be a real gray area, and unless someone can prove DIRRECT harm personally, providing compesation is unfair because almost anybody can show historical injustices." - rah

"I refuse to personally be held responsible for sins that neither I nor my ancestors commited." - rah

You responded directly to his use of the term and denied that it was applicable. By doing so you were stating that no one was holding rah responsible to provide compensation for the acts. But then of course you went on to add that you were holding rah personally responsible to provide compensation for the acts.

Class dismissed *****.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Agathon
You of course mean the World Wide Web, which was created by a European in Europe.

The rest of the internet relies on technology that had been around for years. ****ing stupid Americans think they invented everything, and that they won WWII (the Russians did the heavy lifting there).

I send money to Osama bin Laden, so that he will be able to detonate nuclear weapons in every major American city, thus ridding us of you and your reality television. Britain is next!!!

First of all: ICANN. Ever heard of it? American company. The internet began as an extension of DARPAnet. It's an American thing. You're probably typing on an American computer, or at least a computer using some American parts. I imagine it's a Macintosh, and therefore shames the name of our country, but it still comes from here. Even if not, New Zealand (is that where you're from?) gets a substantial economic boost from the U.S., in the form of all the movies we film there and tourism if nothing else. One way or another, you are profiting from America, and thus from years of evil irresponsible slavery and oppression.

Even if your "invented by a European" argument held up, the majority of slaves were imported to, or enslaved in, America while it was still a cluster of European colonies. Those colonies were a cash cow for their mother countries and propelled their development. The silver mines at Potosi alone kept Spain going for like a century. Of course, those slaves were mostly indigenous, not African, IIRC. How much does Spain owe to the few survivors of the native cultures they worked into the ground? True, they pissed it all away on stupid wars, but that's not the slaves' fault.

I'm still waiting to hear how you think payment should be determined, whom the payments should be made to, what budgets get cut to accommodate it, and how it's divvied up by the recipients.

In conclusion: "What is your major malfunction, Agathon?"

EDIT for obscure grammatical oversight.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Elok

Even if your "invented by a European" argument held up,

CERN

[Imran Siddiqui]

I imagine it's a Macintosh, and therefore shames the name of our country, but it still comes from here.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
CERN

Context is key. I am not contesting that the multimedia version of the internet, the WWW, was invented by Euros (though for all I know it was invented by five drunks in a basement in Zimbabwe). Rather I am saying that his argument would not hold water because "it's not the internet, it's the world wide web" is akin to "it's not TV, it's HDTV" or "it's not poker, it's five-card stud." The internet itself is descended from American projects, and the WWW is just the most popular form of the internet. That brings us up to the part you quoted. I then go on to explain that if the distinction were meaningful, it wouldn't matter, since Europe's development is closely linked to those of the American powers.

[GePap]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Section 8 housing is a program where landlords voluntarily rent out a certain number apartments for a significantly lower rent (often half or less than the rent of the rest of the apartments) to people who qualify for certain income guidelines (fairly liberal guidelines, actually - I qualified for this my first year out of college on a retail employee's salary around $16k/yr). In exchange, the landlords get significant tax breaks.

Basically, it's a way to avoid the debacles that are public housing (tons of crime, de facto segregation, little chance to succeed, etc.) and still provide very affordable housing that is integrated with the rest of society. When done right, it works very well; unfortunately the system can be gamed just like any system.

The landlords also get vouchers for the difference between what the tenant will pay (usually a third of their monthly income will go to the rent) and the price they charge for the room.