The price of freedom is eternal vigilance

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sandman
In the UK, the existence of ancient kingdoms is a minor barrier to that. If it was carved out by Dark Age warlords, then it's seen as a legitimate political entity.

I'm hoping Starchild doesn't really hold to that, though.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Starchild
Mate, if a majority of Scots wants to secede, they should be able to. If the Cornish wanted out, I'd wave them goodbye. If Berwick-upon-****ing-Tweed voted to get out then that's up to them. But they've got to accept the responsibilities that come with that which is my main problem with the Scottish Nationalists. Too much of the rhetoric is based around 'Once the English are gone, we'll be doing great' and not an actual look at the benefits of Union and what they've gained from it.

But in principle, I'm more than happy to give people enough rope to hang themselves with.

None of this addresses my post.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Krill
Can't decide if that is a troll or if Kuci doesn't realise that England doesn't mind being rid of the scots...

I'm aware of the sentiment, at least among the English on Poly, but I don't know how sincere it is among the general population. And I'm dubious that your central government would just let Scotland go.

Moreover, there are plenty of other countries without your special circumstances, that believe very strongly in the sovereignty of the central government. AIUI, Spain vs. the Basques is an example.

[Tattila the Hun]

Land of the free? Hah!

[Agathon]

The fact that they do this is evidence that you're all sheeple. They stopped singing the national anthem at my school because too many students were singing the rude words (you aren't a real country unless you have rude words to your national anthem).

Forced national anthem singing, pledging and marching are crypto-fascist. Loyalty to one's country is required when necessary, not compelled when unecessary.

[BeBMan]

The price of freedom is eternal Frenchhood, esp. when you're fried

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by BeBro
The price of freedom is eternal Frenchhood, esp. when you're fried

It makes sense. Jefferson was a closet frenchie.

[Arrian]

Spencer

This is fascist bull****. I don't even think you need to add the "crypto" at the front...

-Arrian

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I'm hoping Starchild doesn't really hold to that, though.

He said he didn't mind if Berwick-upon-Tweed seceded. To the British mind (and possibly Europeans generally) this makes 'sense', because this town was in an ambiguous situation for a long time. It's not the same for, say, Plymouth or Hull.

[snoopy369]

The fact that people are comparing "children being told to stand up at school" to "fascism" is pretty sad...

[Tattila the Hun]

Reminds me of Catch-22. I'm sure you could ad few more pledges around, maybe before giving the squirts any food, or letting them leave the school.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by snoopy369
The fact that people are comparing "children being told to stand up at school" to "fascism" is pretty sad...

Punishing kids for refusing to stand during the pledge of allegiance is fascist. Not Nazi. Fascist.

This does not mean that the USofA is a fascist state. It simply means that it has one trapping of a fascist state. A really clumsy one at that.

edit: obviously I think the pledge itself is fascistic. The specific punishment here is a local matter, not national policy. Come to think of it, however, I'm pretty sure my schools had the same policy. I recall standing silently for the pledge.

-Arrian

[snoopy369]

I hope you never live in a fascist state. You wouldn't last five minutes.

If I were in Saudi Arabia, and the bells tolled, I would do whatever was appropriate to show my respect while they were praying (not actually pray, of course, but stand, sit, whatever.) It's called 'respect for others', and is something that must be learned to become a mature adult.

Feel free to object to the pledge being said in school; that's certainly reasonable (wrong IMO, but reasonable). Objecting because kids are punished for not being respectful, is another, and unreasonable.

Perhaps this is what is truly wrong with this country... this incredibly arrogant and selfish lack of respect for others.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by SpencerH
I've never understood why every american I've ever discussed this with feels this way.

Everyone that didn't feel that way was killed over a century ago.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by snoopy369


I hope you never live in a fascist state. You wouldn't last five minutes.

If I were in Saudi Arabia, and the bells tolled, I would do whatever was appropriate to show my respect while they were praying (not actually pray, of course, but stand, sit, whatever.) It's called 'respect for others', and is something that must be learned to become a mature adult.

Feel free to object to the pledge being said in school; that's certainly reasonable (wrong IMO, but reasonable). Objecting because kids are punished for not being respectful, is another, and unreasonable.

Perhaps this is what is truly wrong with this country... this incredibly arrogant and selfish lack of respect for others.

Heh. I've made similar arguments to this, saying someone was abusing the term fascist. The shoe is on the other foot today.

I take "you wouldn't last five minutes" in a fascist state as a compliment. If that's true, it means I'd have the balls to stand up and call bull**** (and therefore get squished by the secret police or whatever). I'm not sure I would, but I hope so. Thanks

If I were in Saudi Arabia, in addition to being vaguely concerned b/c of its authoritarian systems (political and religious), I would also be cognizant of my status as a GUEST. That takes the respect requirement up a notch, IMO. Americans not respecting the PoA here in America isn't analogous.

I personally showed respect for the PoA. I stood and was silent (once I'd thought it through. Up until I was about these kids' age, I recited it mindlessly, just like I was supposed to do).

I am against the PoA. I am also against enforcing a show of respect to the PoA, because the PoA isn't worthy of respect. It's something that thinking citizens of the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave should openly deride.

-Arrian