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The price of freedom is eternal vigilance

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
    And if you really cant pledge your allegiance to the country, if not the government, then revoke your citizenship and stop enjoying all the benefits
    You make this statement only because you happen to agree with the principles of the nation. You wouldn't - ever - demand the same from people who oppose what other nations stand for - say, the oppositon in Cuba, Burma, or whatever. Esp. if the pledge of allegiance to your country requires you at the same time to pledge to principles you can't subscribe. Imagine a religious person to make pledge that says something along the line "one nation without God" - you'd rightfully claim for freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of conscience. You'd never expect them to revoke citizenship or whatever.
    "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
    "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by snoopy369
      1. Free speech is not applicable in the school.
      While currently true, I find the irony of that truth to be almost overwhelming.

      2. They did not require them to say the pledge, just to stand in respect. There will be hundreds of times you have to be respectful when you'd rather not be in life; if this is the worst, you live a rather charmed life Consider it a life lesson.
      Respect for what? The daily mouthing of enforced hypocrisy. Its a scene from 1984.

      3. Regions that want more autonomy are free to secede. Go ahead. Try it. You'll find out that indivisible is a fact, not a belief
      I've never understood why every american I've ever discussed this with feels this way.
      We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
      If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
      Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

      Comment

      • #33
        Originally posted by SpencerH
        I've never understood why every american I've ever discussed this with feels this way.
        My pet theory is that its part of this intense American desire to be liked. I've never encountered it to such an extent in any other country I've lived or visited. Americans do genuinely want other people and nations to like them and there's a tendency to take an almost personal offense if someone doesn't like America. Its strange. You tell the Brits you don't like the UK and they'll probably agree with you on the faults. You tell the French you don't like France and they'll just ignore you.

        Same with people not wanting to import American culture or parts wanting to withdraw from America. Its taken as a big 'We don't like you!' insult.
        Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
        -Richard Dawkins

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        • #34
          Uh? I'm pretty sure most countries would have that reaction to a region that tried to secede...

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          • #35
            Really? We've having a debate now over the pros and cons of the Scottish leaving the Union but I've never heard anyone say anything along the lines of 'Go ahead. Try it. You'll find out that indivisible is a fact, not a belief'.
            Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
            -Richard Dawkins

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            • #36
              Would your central government really just say "Oh. I guess that's alright" if the Scottish parliament voted to secede?

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              • #37
                If the majority of Scots voted to end their involvement in the Union through a referendum, what right do we have to keep them in?
                Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
                -Richard Dawkins

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                • #38
                  Surely you see how that's vulnerable to reductio ad absurdem.

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Mate, if a majority of Scots wants to secede, they should be able to. If the Cornish wanted out, I'd wave them goodbye. If Berwick-upon-****ing-Tweed voted to get out then that's up to them. But they've got to accept the responsibilities that come with that which is my main problem with the Scottish Nationalists. Too much of the rhetoric is based around 'Once the English are gone, we'll be doing great' and not an actual look at the benefits of Union and what they've gained from it.

                    But in principle, I'm more than happy to give people enough rope to hang themselves with.
                    Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
                    -Richard Dawkins

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Can't decide if that is a troll or if Kuci doesn't realise that England doesn't mind being rid of the scots...
                      You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Starchild
                        Americans do genuinely want other people and nations to be like them and there's a tendency to take an almost personal offense if someone isn't like America.
                        Fixed it for you.
                        Graffiti in a public toilet
                        Do not require skill or wit
                        Among the **** we all are poets
                        Among the poets we are ****.

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                        • #42
                          I've long been an advocate for increased powers for the Welsh Assembly, a national conversation on the arrangement between the Scots and the rest of the UK and for building a giant glass dome over Northern Ireland and seeing if they can sort themselves out before the oxygen run out.
                          Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
                          -Richard Dawkins

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                            Surely you see how that's vulnerable to reductio ad absurdem.
                            In the UK, the existence of ancient kingdoms is a minor barrier to that. If it was carved out by Dark Age warlords, then it's seen as a legitimate political entity.
                            Last edited by Sandman; May 11, 2008, 10:43.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Sandman


                              In the UK, the existence of ancient kingdoms is a minor barrier to that. If it was carved out by Dark Age warlords, then it's seem as a legitimate politcal entity.
                              I'm partial to reestablishing the Heptarchy.
                              Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
                              -Richard Dawkins

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Oerdin

                                Who are you?
                                He's in the Civ4 forums mostly.
                                I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                                I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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