NATO members show how much they value the Alliance

[Monk]

Okay, back to reality then. No signature fix is going to change the 'us and them' approach around here. But it was a nice dream.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Colon™


The US has itself to blame for the meagre contribution as well you know. The dubious cause and the catastrophic execution of the Iraq war has reflected very badly on Afghanistan in the mind of the European public.

You all are such little brothers.

[TCO]

I actually think we should pull out of BOTH Iraq and Afghanistan AND that Europe is generally full of pussies. Putting ordnance on target is what war is about. Grabbing Berbers and hanging them is the way to take action. Staying around and occupying stuff is just butt stupid. Let them starve, kill each other and do whatever else they want. It's their country.

[TCO]

Oh...and you are a fat redhead, no?

[Monk]

Originally posted by TCO
Oh...and you are a fat redhead, no?

You're looking for trouble, you're looking for a redhead.

How yo doin', GP!

[TCO]

No sweat. how is young Da-veed?

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by PLATO
Europe is indeed ignorant...as evidenced by your post.

Oh, yes a very convincing argument.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by TCO


I guess the US is learning there is no gratitude from the maggots who got protected from the USSR by us.

The same selfish guys who didn't lift a finger while you defeated the Nazis all by yourself.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Heraclitus


The same selfish guys who didn't lift a finger while you defeated the Nazis all by yourself.

Little brothers to the core. Let's go take some Gitmo detainees and hang them from gallows in Weisbaden. Will like how the krauts kvetch. God knows they won't try anything.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Patroklos


I deny nothing of the sort, but I will also say the effect is grossly exaggerated. There are other reasons besides GWB people have the opinions they do.



They can have whatever reasons they want, but so far everyone given has been childish or inconsequential, and none of them change the fact they are indeed NOT stepping up.

You know, I wonder if after France removed itself from NATO and kicked out all allied assets from their territory in the middle of the Cold War if the US would have defended them any less. I doubt it.

OFITG was trying to tell you it is a lot more than Iraq.

What it boils down to is the Alliance is drifting apart due to differing views on what is important, exacerbated by antagonism among national leaders and some outright moronic diplomacy (not limited to Washington). If it continues, I'm sure Yeltsin and his heirs will be very pleased.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Actually yes.

I had that feeling as soon as Sept. 12. That the US would wage its war with planes and bombs, whereas the only way to actually win against a terrorist enemy is with secret services and other subtle ways.

I was against the Afghanistan war to begin with. Once it was done, I supported a temporary occupation of Afghanistan to restore a central government, but that happened to be a failure (much like in Iraq).

Now, maybe the west should accept that Afghanistan will remain clan-ridden until the Afghan society moves on by itself.
In the meantime, it should provide weapons and support to the faction that is most likely to keep a relative stability, not harbour threats to regional or world peace.
And NATO/US should have a gentleman's agreement with regional powers to that effect (including such nice countries as Iran, Pakistan and China). Nobody among the regionals want Afghanistan to be a timebomb anyway.

Yeah right. Surely you were laughing to yourself when you wrote this since it sounds like you are describing the Shah or Guatemala redux. How do those play among socialist circles?

[SlowwHand]

Well hell, yes. Yeltsin looks at this like McCain looks at the democratic slander of each other.
Which brings up a same related point. Dissent on the war. Terrorists have to love it. To a point, they're winning, in many ways.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by TCO


I guess the US is learning there is no gratitude from the maggots who got protected from the USSR by us.

Some would say the US did that out of self-interest.

Many are ungrateful that American-Soviet rivalry played out in their fields and villages.

[TCO]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Some would say the US did that out of self-interest.

Many are ungrateful that American-Soviet rivalry played out in their fields and villages.

Sure we did. Just like a big brother fights big bully out of self interest. And ***** ass little brothers just shirk their duties. It's game theory. Free rider effect. ***** pole smoker effect.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by TCO
Free rider effect. ***** pole smoker effect.

So we got a free ride. We're senior citizens overe here, we are thus entitled to a bus ride.