Religion and Guns in small-town America

[Kidlicious]

Look at what he said about why people voted for Reagan. The point that he's trying to make is that republicans try to make democrats look as certain way, elitists and communists mostly. That's why he's not that popular with middle class and even poor whites.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


If you put yourself in the shoes of a rural american churchgoer/hunter, don't you think his statement would be just a wee bit condescending?

Yes, because they are bitter. At least some of them, particularly those with low self esteem who don't view themselves as well off. Those who cling to ideas of their race and things like that.

[Kidlicious]

I didn't see any numbers for people who think Obama is a muslim. Incidently I've also spoken with black people who believe this also. There is a chain email that is floating around out there. Here's a copy of it and the story behind it.

Also, there is a rumor that he refuses to pledge allegiance to the flag. People have told me that also.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Yes, because they are bitter. At least some of them, particularly those with low self esteem who don't view themselves as well off. Those who cling to ideas of their race and things like that.

Who is bitter?

Can you be bitter without being a racist?

Why is it ok to be a prejudiced bitter minority but not a prejudiced bitter person in the majority?-based on your previous views. You refer to some groups in a derogatory manner, but others not. Why is that?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Kid,

Since you seem to be an expert on small town PA and their motives perhaps you could explain it to me a person who grew up in small town PA.

How many rural Pennsylvainians have you had the opportunity to deal with on a day in day out basis in order to proclaim them bitter? Would you characterize the majority of the thousands you have dealings with as bitter. If so what metrics do you use in order to establish this pronouncement?

[KrazyHorse]

Most of the people I know who grew up in small town PA are just thankful that they're no longer there (I'm serious; they hated it).

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


Who is bitter?

Can you be bitter without being a racist?

Why is it ok to be a prejudiced bitter minority but not a prejudiced bitter person in the majority?-based on your previous views. You refer to some groups in a derogatory manner, but others not. Why is that?

Well bitter poor white people are stupid. Black people have a reason to be bitter, although it's not a good idea.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Well bitter poor white people are stupid. Black people have a reason to be bitter, although it's not a good idea.

Interesting. You are white, aren't you?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Most of the people I know who grew up in small town PA are just thankful that they're no longer there (I'm serious; they hated it).

Perhaps so, I left after all as well and would do so again. Doesn't speak to those still there however. Especially in todays society of telecommuting rural life offers some allure.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Kid,

Since you seem to be an expert on small town PA and their motives perhaps you could explain it to me a person who grew up in small town PA.

How many rural Pennsylvainians have you had the opportunity to deal with on a day in day out basis in order to proclaim them bitter? Would you characterize the majority of the thousands you have dealings with as bitter. If so what metrics do you use in order to establish this pronouncement?

I don't know about PA in particular. I know about poor white people in CA and OK. I figure poor whites (not those like me obviously) are pretty much the same everywhere in the US. As for how many, I would say maybe half or so. That's just a general perception of my own.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

See thats the problem. Its the bad therapist's trap. When analyzing one needs to ensure that one's own biases are not coloring the analysis

April 14, 2008
Bad Therapists and Failures of Empathy
Among the many reasons that a Psychoanalyst undergoes his own Psychoanalysis is to be able to identify as clearly as possible his own emotional reactions so as to differentiate them as much as possible from his patient's emotional reactions. In other words, if an analyst does not understand and appreciate that based on his own history he has unresolved bitterness toward his mother, he may be too ready to see and interpret bitterness toward his patient's mother, when the patient is actually feeling disappointment or frustration. While there are commonalities to the feelings, the differences are crucial in understanding what is going on in the patient's therapy. When a therapist misses an interpretation of his patient's emotional state, ie interpreting bitterness when disappointment is closer to the patient's experience, it is referred to as a "failure of empathy." The therapist thought he knew what the patient was feeling and was wrong. A therapist who does this consistently, in short order is a therapist with many open hours in his schedule. The typical reaction to a therapist's "failure of empathy" is anger. Generally the patient feels misunderstood and unfairly criticized and reacts accordingly. How the therapist handles such inevitable failures is crucial to the success of the treatment.

Since therapists should always strive to minimize such empathic failures, it is almost always a good idea to interpret emotional states in a modest and tentative fashion. After all, just because the therapist might react with bitterness at losing a job, maybe the patient is actually relieved. The best approach is to suggest that "perhaps there is some bitterness mixed in with relief." This way the patient has the opportunity to clarify, or deny, and further clarifications can follow. The worst approach is to make a pronouncement to the patient of what he is feeling. Whether correct or incorrect, whether the patient is aware of the feelings or not, whether they need to deny painful feelings or not, telling him what he feels can all too often be, a priori, a failure of empathy since it addresses the therpaist's concerns rather than the patients.

For example, a patient may be "bitter", yet for myriad reasons not yet ready to acknowledge his painful feelings or not even be conscious of such feelings. Further, what may look like bitterness to the therapist, is actually something different. Perhaps the patient is more distracted and preoccupied; maybe the patient is not even concerned about what you think he is concerned about. A patient who looks bitter might be talking about a friend who snubbed him yet actually be preoccupied with his father's illness. A therapist can never assume they understand all the influences at work on their patient at any one moment. We try to focus on the most significant material emerging during the course of a session, but we do not know what a patient is feeling until he tells us. (They may "tell us" non-verbally or through a defensive maneuver; that is reason to exercise some tact and allow the material to develop and confirmation to emerge in its own time.)

This is all a round about way of reflecting on Barack Obama's recent gaffe of saying what he actually believed to a group of extremely wealthy San Fransisco liberals.

Bill Clinton set the standard for those running for President as Therapist-in-Chief. He famously "felt our pain" and was deeply empathic for those less fortunate than him. Luckily for Bill Clinton, the 90s were a time when American and much of the West took a vacation from history and he was not terribly challenged in the international realm. This is unlikely to be the case for the next President. Hillary Clinton, lacking the talent of her husband has made a virtue of necessity and has been running a campaign designed to show she could be a reasonable Commander-in-Chief. Barack Obama, mesmerized perhaps by the adulation in which he has been basking since starting his surprising run, has been running a campaign designed to show that a Therapist-in-Chief to the entire world could preclude the need for a Commander-in-Chief. That is why his comments are so damaging to his prospects.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Of course it would be seen as condescening to poor white folk... and the problem is people who don't or won't see it and try to sweep it under the rug.

The implication was that guns & religion aren't core values of these people, but just something that was turned to because of economic hardship and bitterness.

And Kid, these 'blogs', I got from the NY Times. Not exactly a conservative stronghold.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Its not so much condescending as it is facile specious stereotyping. Something that the Obamamessiah was supposed to be above doing.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, I guess I can see it as both. Of course this type of thing speaks directly to his lack of experience. He can privately think it, but he should NEVER say something like that out loud. Ever.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel



Interesting. You are white, aren't you?

White: yes. Bitter: no.