Tibetan monasteries 'surrounded by soldiers'

[DaShi]

Originally posted by C0ckney
the author of che's article isn't very bright.

Neither is the linker it seems.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Colon™
I have the feeling you missed the point. Put it like this: if you don't find that a Chinaman opening a restaurant in Bonn is colonialism or threatening native culture, then why should it be viewed as such if he does so in Lhasa?

Because the power of the Chinese state isn't repressing Germans but it is repressing Tibetans?

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by C0ckney


apart from the many factual errors, inaccuracies and half-truths.

the fact that he's using the sort of language bebro talked about, to the extent that one could be forgiven for thinking it was a satirical article. in addition, the whole piece is littered with examples of poor reasoning and a general lack of thought.

Like this one:

By 1949, Mao's People's Liberation Army had defeated all the main reactionary armies in central China. The day of the poor and oppressed had arrived!

He could have at least accompanied that line with a smiley

[SlowwHand]

**** China.

[Colon™]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Because the power of the Chinese state isn't repressing Germans but it is repressing Tibetans?

The power of the Chinese state doesn't exist in Russia, yet there are similar fears of Sinicization regarding the influx in Siberia and the Far East. It seems quite probable to me they'd still be moving into Tibet were it an independent country, with a minimum of modern transport links to the outside world. There's basically a ****load of impoverished Chinese out there and to stop them from migrating has consistently proven impossible. Nor is Tibet the only example of a country in which Chinese dominate the economy: consider Malaysia, despite its policy of positive discrimination of the Muslim majority.

The repressiveness of the Chinese state and its bias towards Han Chinese culture in Tibet is a clear-cut case in my regard. However, when the Qingzang railways is criticized or when cultural genocide is alleged (borne out of the mass economic migration of Han Chinese), well, I don't find that clear-cut at all.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
**** China.

There we go, the Texan contingent has spoken. Truly a Texan through and through.

[Zkribbler]

**** China, two times.

[Dinner]

The Chinese communist party has given up areas they consider to be inalienable parts of China in the past. The Chinese had threatened to invade Mongolia in the late 40's but after the Soviets told them Mongolia was a Soviet protectorate and that invading Mongolia would mean war with the USSR the CCP backed down.

I doubt they'd ever do the same in Tibet without a very real military threat but the fact remains that Tibet is not historically or culturally part of China.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
**** China, two times.

And the Californian contingent too... rather like Nancy Pelosi, actually. (I hear she's actually meeting with the Dalai Lama now and has called for accountability for China.)

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by Oerdin
... the fact remains that Tibet is not historically or culturally part of China.

Culturally you may have a point. But historically there have been periods when Chinese power has extended over Tibet.

The Chinese government would say "always".

The Westerners would say "never".

The truth is somewhere between the two extremes. Probably closer to "sometimes".

[Dinner]

To be fair, Pelosi demanding the CCP provide proof for their wild accusations is actually quite reasonable. As is speaking to the Dalai Lama to hear his side. Given the vast amount of state control over religious life in Tibet (deciding who can become a lama/priest, who can't, weekly inspections, demanding all senior people only be members of the CCP, 24/7 surveillance, and a million other things) it is highly unlikely the Dalai Lama had much of anything to do with the riots.

Far more likely is that local Tibet people got pissed off at local issues, Dashi's article provides details in a very balanced way, and decided to protest based on those issues. The Dalai Lama provides a convenient scape goat for the CCP allowing them to ignore the local issues and blame outsiders.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia


Culturally you may have a point. But historically there have been periods when Chinese power has extended over Tibet.

The Chinese government would say "always".

The Westerners would say "never".

The truth is somewhere between the two extremes. Probably closer to "sometimes".

Most of the time Tibet was independent but forced to pay protection money, I.E. pay us X a year or we'll invade, though sometimes the Imperial forces did invade and for a while the Chinese appointed governors while the Tibetan people were pretty much left alone. It was more of a colonial arrangement even in the periods of highest Chinese involvement (a few foreigners lording over the vast native population). That doesn't make it even remotely part of China especially since the vast majority of the time there were no Chinese government officials in Tibet and it was only a weaker neighbor forced to pay tribute to its more powerful militaristic neighbor.

Let's face it. In 1950 the CCP was a militant expansionist organization looking for new areas to conquer. They'd beat the Nationalists and they got turned away from Mongolia by the Soviets so they decided to turn on Tibet and Korea.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia


There we go, the Texan contingent has spoken. Truly a Texan through and through.

Truly an ass through and through. Congrats. It's not like they deserve freedom or anything.
Here's a thought. Concentrate on things you know, like collecting hats. A slit doesn't equal brains.

[Wezil]

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Oerdin
To be fair, Pelosi demanding the CCP provide proof for their wild accusations is actually quite reasonable. As is speaking to the Dalai Lama to hear his side. Given the vast amount of state control over religious life in Tibet (deciding who can become a lama/priest, who can't, weekly inspections, demanding all senior people only be members of the CCP, 24/7 surveillance, and a million other things) it is highly unlikely the Dalai Lama had much of anything to do with the riots.

Far more likely is that local Tibet people got pissed off at local issues, Dashi's article provides details in a very balanced way, and decided to protest based on those issues. The Dalai Lama provides a convenient scape goat for the CCP allowing them to ignore the local issues and blame outsiders.

There has been a growing desire for a more violent movement among the Tibetans, especially the exiles. I'd imagine that the violence would be far worse had they not been stopped at the border by India.