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[Elok]

Women bleed from their hoo-hoos maybe five days out of every month, while guys have at least traces of feces in their rectum all the time. Yet you're saying a couple of beers could get me to stick my willy in something you just douched the poo out of (or take it from you), but not get you to try a different hairy orifice because it bleeds now and then? I must protest your double standards.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Asher
Oh yes, Linux on a pen drive, that's ****ing useful.

Yes it is very useful. At least if you use seeral different computer, and want a unified working environment on all of them, and some of them don't have internet access.

The reason that this doesn't exist isn't because it's not possible (see MinWin), but because there's no market for it.

Well MinWin is not available as of today. Also does MinWin have any optional GUI? A commandline only kernel doesn't seem too useful today. (Yes, I know the Linux kernel does not include any GUI, but the GUI is provided by additional tools. However my pendrive system does have a full featured X-server on it.)

Your whole argument is nonsense. You dismiss distros that encompass the vast majority of the Linux market as saying "you don't HAVE to use them", as if this means they're not indicative! Yes, Linux is open source, you can theoretically do anything you want with it.

I don't say that they aren't indicative. I just say that there are other options. But if I were to recommend a Linux system to someone I'd recomend Ubuntu if the person would want to install it on it's own computer, and had no previous experinece with any Unix type system. And I never said that you should modify the system yourself. Most users won't know how to do that.

That doesn't mean it's not bloated as most people would use it.

I've never claimed that. Most people se a DE as KDE or Gnome, and that's bloated. I just claimed that if you don't want to you can choose not to.

For all that you "can" do with Linux, the simple fact is the vast majority of people who do use Linux use the most bloated operating system in the history of computers.

Do you have some figures backing that up? There are so many operation systems out there historial and current. What makes a system bloated? The number of binaries installed? The installation footprint? Something else? Also remember tat there are several users that use Linux operation systems unaware in embedded systems, and those are mostly not bloated. Have you taken that into account in the average?

What about other UNIXes? What makes Linux-based systems more bloated than for instance BSD or Solaris?

I don't care how you want to rationalize it like some mindless Torvalds-wanking zombie, the fact that you can write your own machine code to make Linux do exactly what you want doesn't mean it's not bloated as most people use it.

I couldn't care less on how most people use stuff, but consider that many Linux installations are server instalations, which usually don't include X-windows or any office applications.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Gramphos
Yes it is very useful. At least if you use seeral different computer, and want a unified working environment on all of them, and some of them don't have internet access.

What about the case where there's no power? Or there's power but it's powered by munchkins? What the hell is wrong with you boy, that's frickin useless.

You want a unified work environment? Use Windows + Office, it's frickin everywhere.

Well MinWin is not available as of today. Also does MinWin have any optional GUI? A commandline only kernel doesn't seem too useful today. (Yes, I know the Linux kernel does not include any GUI, but the GUI is provided by additional tools. However my pendrive system does have a full featured X-server on it.)

Are you stupid or are you toying with me?

MinWin is a kernel. Linux is a kernel. Whether you want to run a GUI on that is up to you, but don't you dare tell me how Linux has GUIs while Windows doesn't. Wiggah please.

I've never claimed that. Most people se a DE as KDE or Gnome, and that's bloated. I just claimed that if you don't want to you can choose not to.

What you're claiming is irrelevant. Most Linux users use the most bloated OS in existence. Period.

Do you have some figures backing that up? There are so many operation systems out there historial and current. What makes a system bloated? The number of binaries installed? The installation footprint? Something else? Also remember tat there are several users that use Linux operation systems unaware in embedded systems, and those are mostly not bloated. Have you taken that into account in the average?

Any time you have over 1000 programs to choose from in the installation procedure, you get a BLOATED stamp. Any time you have device drivers for every device under the sun built into the kernel, you get the BLOATED stamp.

What about other UNIXes? What makes Linux-based systems more bloated than for instance BSD or Solaris?

Which BSDs come with 4 Word processors? Which Solaris distro does?

I couldn't care less on how most people use stuff, but consider that many Linux installations are server instalations, which usually don't include X-windows or any office applications.

Consider we're not talking about servers, I suggest you back up.

You can install Windows Server 2008 without a GUI, etc. It's no more bloaty than a server distro of Linux. In fact, dare I say it is less bloaty since it doesn't use a frickin massive monolithic kernel a la Linux.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Elok
Women bleed from their hoo-hoos maybe five days out of every month, while guys have at least traces of feces in their rectum all the time. Yet you're saying a couple of beers could get me to stick my willy in something you just douched the poo out of (or take it from you), but not get you to try a different hairy orifice because it bleeds now and then? I must protest your double standards.

1) Blood is a bigger contagion than fecal matter
2) Blood is harder to get out of bed sheets
3) Blood in women comes with being FRICKIN *****Y and POSSESSIVE and the attitude.

The simple fact is, men are better than women. Ergo, men are better partners.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Asher
You want a unified work environment? Use Windows + Office, it's frickin everywhere.

I don't have office at my home computer, and it's not in the computers in the physics building of my university either. (At least unless I want to use remote desktop.)

And it's rather useless and unproductive I want sloppy focus, and be able to focus windows that aren't the top layer windows. I want virtual desktops, and I want mouse gestures. Oh, and I want window shading too. As for word it's useless for writing mathematics, at least last time I checked it was a storm of clicking everywhere in order to get something written. Too be productive I need LaTeX + a good text editor.

And also with a unified working environment I include stuff as your look and feel settings, and access to your bookmarks and other files from your home directory.

Are you stupid or are you toying with me?

I'm sot stupid at least. I might be toying a little, but I'm serious about some points. I especially want you to understand that different users have different needs.

MinWin is a kernel. Linux is a kernel. Whether you want to run a GUI on that is up to you, but don't you dare tell me how Linux has GUIs while Windows doesn't. Wiggah please.

Yes, MinWin is a kernel, and Linux is a kernel. Neither of them have any built in GUI. However the standard Windows GUI is integrated with the default (bloated) Windows kernel. I was merely asking if they were creating some standalone GUI that could be run on the MinWin kernel, or if it was only a targeted at dedicated servers, in which case it would be useless for a

What you're claiming is irrelevant. Most Linux users use the most bloated OS in existence. Period.

Since Linux is really several different OSes all distros can't be the most bloated OS. You have to assign that title to ONE disto, not a hole bunch of them. If you do I don't think you'll find anyone that is used by a majority of the Linux users, and thus most Linux users can't be using the most bloated OS in the market.

Any time you have over 1000 programs to choose from in the installation procedure, you get a BLOATED stamp.

Mostly you don't chose them in the installation procedure, but you use a package manager to install them afterwards. It's no different than to go and download them all yourself because you want some program. The only different is that the distributors have chosen to provide you with an easy way of installing third party applications, and integrated them into the operating system. Which makes the process of keeping the system up to date a lot simpler than if you were to check with the vendor of every program that you have manually downloaded, or bought in a retail store for security updates and other patches.

Any time you have device drivers for every device under the sun built into the kernel, you get the BLOATED stamp.

Maybe it's news to you, but MOST Linux distributions DON'T build drivers into the kernel, but make them as module and put those needed to boot any system (i.e disk controllers, console drivers, etc) onto an initrd, so that it can mount the root file system where the other drivers are.

Which BSDs come with 4 Word processors? Which Solaris distro does?

Which Linux distros does install 4 Word processors by default? Most install only one, some none, some give you a choice of which ones to install.

What you are doing is to point out the most bloated parts of several different Linux distributions, and then say that the average is to make a Linux distribution that is bloated on all those points. That can't possible be true.

For instance Ubuntu does not include both Gnome and KDE, and is than in my opinion not as bloated as Red Hat.

[Zoid]

This is no fun

[Wezil]

How will you have any material for the REBEL REBEL Edition if you answer all the questions in this thread?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Gramphos
Yes, MinWin is a kernel, and Linux is a kernel. Neither of them have any built in GUI. However the standard Windows GUI is integrated with the default (bloated) Windows kernel.

This is completely false. And the Windows kernel is anything but bloated, I don't think you know a damn thing you are talking about, sir. The audio stack doesn't even touch the kernel anymore. Nor the network stack. etc.

Mostly you don't chose them in the installation procedure, but you use a package manager to install them afterwards.

It's an OS that comes with thousands of programs...bloated. Period.

Maybe it's news to you, but MOST Linux distributions DON'T build drivers into the kernel, but make them as module and put those needed to boot any system (i.e disk controllers, console drivers, etc) onto an initrd, so that it can mount the root file system where the other drivers are.

Kernel modules are still kernel-space code. Whether it is linked at compile time or run-time is irrelevant. For instance, the audio drivers and network drivers and video drivers run in kernel space in Linux. This is not so in Windows Vista/2008.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Ask them whatever went on with JohnT.

Ahh, JohnT, I forgot about him...

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by Asher


1) Blood is a bigger contagion than fecal matter

First of all this is sort of DEBATABLE since blood can be completely harmless with a trusted partner, whereas crap never is. Moreover visa vie, there is NOTHING healthy about anal sex, it is so high risky that it is clear homosexuals catch AIDS more than anyone who likes girls. I give you there fact

[-Jrabbit]

"vis-a-vis"

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
First of all this is sort of DEBATABLE since blood can be completely harmless with a trusted partner, whereas crap never is. Moreover visa vie, there is NOTHING healthy about anal sex, it is so high risky that it is clear homosexuals catch AIDS more than anyone who likes girls. I give you there fact

Anal sex reduces the rate of prostate cancer. FACT.

[Wiglaf]

"vis-a-vis"

Your attempt at grammatical nitpicking is noted, but I am correct: Vis a vie is actually the proper spelling, perhaps you should find someone French woman to impress with your Atlas-like knowledge of world history.

[Wiglaf]

Anal sex reduces the rate of prostate cancer. FACT.

NO NO NO NO NO

It INCREASES it AND I READ AS STUDY THAT SAYS WHY. The reason is that GAY MEN ARE NOT MARRIED AND SO ARE LESS LIKELY TO TELL THEIR DOCTOR THAT THEY ARE SEXUALLY ACTIVE WITH MEN FOR FEAR of embarrassment. Therefore the doctor does not know they are ramming it and cannot properly treat the disease, so the treatment results in a decrease in sexual function and the patient wants to cease treatment. All because of what, shyness? No, GAYNESS.

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by Wiglaf


NO NO NO NO NO
All because of what, shyness? No, GAYNESS.