Nah mate, I don't want to work in like no cornfield

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Oerdin

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kidicious

The fact is that I've spent much of my life poor. I'm not middle class now, or even lower middle class when you consider my debt payments. I'm exactly the type of person that would consider working in a rural area. In fact, I already have. So have a lot of people in Oklahoma City that I know. Jobs have been created here because the illegals have been fired. People are already taking jobs in farming communities. FACT

Again, your personal work preferences don't mean diddly to me, and don;t make for an argument.

As for more locals taking up farm labor, great that you may have finally provided an example. Any press about it?

Like I said. The urban poor already take farm labor jobs. They do it everyday. No need to start a program for it, allthough I support any government program that will help unemployed get jobs. If they need transportation and temp housing, I'm all for that. Taht would definitely help.

Have any numbers on the amount of urban poor that take up famr jobs, compared to the number of migrant laborers?

[Dinner]

Send some of those Polish girls over here.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by GePap


Again, your personal work preferences don't mean diddly to me, and don;t make for an argument.

Again, your argument doesn't mean diddly to me either.

As for more locals taking up farm labor, great that you may have finally provided an example. Any press about it?

Someone taking a job as a farm worker should be news?

Have any numbers on the amount of urban poor that take up famr jobs, compared to the number of migrant laborers?

The number of illegal immigrants coming into the US to work is still increasing as far as I know. But employers have replaced them with american citizens when they have to - when they get busted.

[Kidlicious]

Here's some figures from the census.


citizen workers fill 3/4 agricultural jobs.

It estimated that illegal immigrants fill a quarter of all agricultural jobs

See some people actually don't mind working outside. Come out of your little world please.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Here's some figures from the census.


citizen workers fill 3/4 agricultural jobs.

NO, the figure is that illegal immigrants fill 25% of farm jobs (not defined). That does not mean citizens, as opposed to legal migrants, fill in the remaining 75%. And then, when it comes to citizens, no explination if these are migrant citzen workers, or families from rural areas (where else are rural citzens going to work?)

See some people actually don't mind working outside. Come out of your little world please.

Given the general movement of humanity in the last 200 years, where most countries have urbanized rapidly, the MASS of evidence would seem to indicate that people would rather work in higher paying indoor jobs than in lower paying outdoor jobs, which was the general trend during most of the industrialized revolution.

So, actually, the trend is people moving to do jobs that pay more if they can, depending on the net benefits.

And I still see no chance that if that 25% of illegal migrants were removed that those jobs would be filled by the urban poor. More likely, it would raise the cost of farm labor to the point that mechanization would make sense, ansd then those jobs would be done by machines instead. After all, most heavy manual labor can be replaced with a machine.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by GePap
This prejudice won;t change, and in fact can only get worse as more and more people try to get academic degrees.

Also, the thing is that the higher the price of manual labor becomes, the greater the incentive to mechanize and remove even the need for manual laborers.

And indeed, as mechanization happens those high tech jobs of the future that said degree holders are after will be created. If wages are rising in a real way.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by GePap
NO, the figure is that illegal immigrants fill 25% of farm jobs (not defined). That does not mean citizens, as opposed to legal migrants, fill in the remaining 75%. And then, when it comes to citizens, no explination if these are migrant citzen workers, or families from rural areas (where else are rural citzens going to work?)

Fine, some are legal immigrants. But most still aren't even immigrants.

a majority of farmworkers had a home base in the United States

http://www.ericdigests.org/2003-4/migrant-farmworkers.html

Given the general movement of humanity in the last 200 years, where most countries have urbanized rapidly, the MASS of evidence would seem to indicate that people would rather work in higher paying indoor jobs than in lower paying outdoor jobs, which was the general trend during most of the industrialized revolution.

Do you try not to oppose my points? I already admitted that higher pay is needed to get people to do farm work. That shouldn't be an issue though since wages will go up with less immigrant workers taking jobs.

So, actually, the trend is people moving to do jobs that pay more if they can, depending on the net benefits.

And I still see no chance that if that 25% of illegal migrants were removed that those jobs would be filled by the urban poor. More likely, it would raise the cost of farm labor to the point that mechanization would make sense, ansd then those jobs would be done by machines instead. After all, most heavy manual labor can be replaced with a machine.

If they knew a way to replace all the farm labor today they would have already implemented it. Do you know of any machines that exist today that can replace farm labor that exists today? Farming is already very mechanised. People are still required for some things however.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kidicious

If they knew a way to replace all the farm labor today they would have already implemented it. Do you know of any machines that exist today that can replace farm labor that exists today? Farming is already very mechanised. People are still required for some things however.

There is a cost to mechanization, so it is not an immidiate thing, if labor is cheap enough. China is a great example - a lot of factory jobs in China are done by mahcines elsewhere, but because Chinese industrial labor is cheap enough, there is no incentive to mechanize those tasks.

A good paper on the susbject.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2007/back907.html

[Provost Harrison]

I think that for every Polish immigrant we receive, we should be allowed to deport a chav to Eastern Europe

[Saras]

NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Provost Harrison]

Oh don't worry, you can put them to work in a gullag or saltmine or something

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Here's some figures from the census.


citizen workers fill 3/4 agricultural jobs.



See some people actually don't mind working outside. Come out of your little world please.

Some of them are easy and locals are willing to do. Driving a combine (normally completely sealed with AC and a stereo inside) is pretty easy as is driving a tractor. What are the jobs Americans don't want? The hard ones with back breaking labor like nealing down and cutting lettuce, manually picking stawberries, manually spraying pesticides, etc... Those are hard or dangerous jobs which locals don't want.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Oh don't worry, you can put them to work in a gullag or saltmine or something

A chav work? Ha! They'll sit on the dole, get drunk daily, and wander around looking for people to beat up.

[lightblue]

I work in Peterborough (the city referred to in the opening piece) as a teacher. The influx of Eastern Europeans has led to some issues on my end, with about 20-30% of any class not being able to comprehend even basic English.

That said a lot of the Eastern Europeans, especially the Poles, work extremely hard (I have a Polish kid who went from no English to A* in GCSE modules in less than a year).
The main problem are the Slovakian Roma (or gypsies) who don't really do education at all back in Slovakia, but have to here, which means they struggle with even the most basic aspects.

The thing is the demographics change, but the cash to support these kids is not following. You need bilingual staff, dictionaries, basic EFL teaching etc etc.