Nah mate, I don't want to work in like no cornfield

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by snoopy369
There are lots of americans employed as farm laborers. They're called Nebraskans.

Drake is an English teacher IIRC.

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by Kidicious How would requiring people to work be ineffective? And yes that will cost something, but it seems like a worthwhile pursuit. The thing taht you don't want is a subculture of welfare recipients.

we already do sadly. there are areas in this country with many families where no one will have worked for 2 or 3 generations.

as i said we have schemes that encourage people to go back into work or into training. they sound impressive on paper, but they are expensive and the results have been widely criticised. those who go into training often find there is no job at the end of it, and those that are placed in a job tend to be back on benefits within a short space of time. for those who simply refuse to work, there are enough ways around these schemes for them to simply go on behaving as they did before.

What is the root of the problem, in your opinion?

when immigrants come here from eastern europe they are prevented from claiming unemployment benefits for a year (IIRC). so they have a choice, they get a job or they go hungry, not surprisingly, they all get a job.

if you have, like we do here, a system which allows people to choose not to work, then some people will make that choice. i believe that welfare should be a safety net and not a lifestyle choice.

I don't disagree with you, but what do you propose, and what is wrong with my proposal?

your idea was suggested recently by the conservative party, but i'm rather sceptical about any impact it might have without a significant reform of the system.

there should be an assumption that if you are able to work, then you should. in regions across the UK there are plenty of jobs going on farms, in factories, in catering, cleaning etc. however british people refuse to take them. if you refuse a reasonable job (and by that i mean one that you can reasonably do and get to), then the state should withdraw your benefits.

i would also like to see a crackdown on incapacity benefit, which is so widely abused, it's a national joke. a shade under 3 million people claim it, around 2/3 of whom could work. more rigorous tests for claimants and penalties for doctors who issue too many sick notes would be a good start.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Drake is an English teacher IIRC.

Oh

Maybe if he works hard, one day he can be a farm labourer too

[C0ckney]

when i was 18 i worked on a farm for 3 months, my job was supervising a bunch of eastern european workers who did fruit picking and related activities. i enjoyed it, had some interesting experiences and gained a little insight into their culture.

the local layabouts wouldn't have dreamed of doing this work, and i daresay, wouldn't have worked half as hard as these russians, balts and ukrainians.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by C0ckney
when i was 18 i worked on a farm for 3 months, my job was supervising a bunch of eastern european workers

when i was young i had teh sense, to buy a flute for 50 pence

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Some of them are easy and locals are willing to do. Driving a combine (normally completely sealed with AC and a stereo inside) is pretty easy as is driving a tractor. What are the jobs Americans don't want? The hard ones with back breaking labor like nealing down and cutting lettuce, manually picking stawberries, manually spraying pesticides, etc... Those are hard or dangerous jobs which locals don't want.

No. More desperate people will do those jobs for less money, and sure they will probably work harder, not taking as many breaks etc.. But picking fruit isn't any harder than jobs that many people already do, loading and unloading trucks etc...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by GePap


There is a cost to mechanization, so it is not an immidiate thing, if labor is cheap enough. China is a great example - a lot of factory jobs in China are done by mahcines elsewhere, but because Chinese industrial labor is cheap enough, there is no incentive to mechanize those tasks.

A good paper on the susbject.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2007/back907.html

Actually factories are mostly mechanized in China, just like everywhere else.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by C0ckney
there should be an assumption that if you are able to work, then you should. in regions across the UK there are plenty of jobs going on farms, in factories, in catering, cleaning etc. however british people refuse to take them. if you refuse a reasonable job (and by that i mean one that you can reasonably do and get to), then the state should withdraw your benefits.

That actually doesn't sound that much different from community service since basically you are forcing the work on people.

Your system definitely need reform if it is as bad as you say. Here people on welfare have to do WEP, work experience program, after they have recieved training already if they are on welfare. And unemployment is only temporary. Of course you can manipulate the system to still survive, but most people want jobs who are on the system.

[Cort Haus]

There's a BBC program on the OP subject now. They're now talking about the lack of workers left in Poland. They are struggling to find people to build the stadium in Gdansk for the Euro 2012 football championship. Also fire-fighters, shop & factory workers are in short supply.

[Dinner]

Naw, there are lots of jobs which are automated in the west which are done by hand in India and China due to the fact that it is cheaper to hire people then to buy robots. Life in a low wage country means less automation.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Naw, there are lots of jobs which are automated in the west which are done by hand in India and China due to the fact that it is cheaper to hire people then to buy robots. Life in a low wage country means less automation.

Interesting that you guys all seem to be confused about the same things.

But, as the country optimizes its economic structure, China's capital and technology-intensive industries are growing faster than labor-intensive industry.



The economy depends increasingly on technological innovation and capital input for growth. Fewer workers are needed than before, the official said.

Economic Growth Does Not Solve Unemployment

Labor intensive manufacturing is a thing of the past. Labor is only used when a machine simply can not do the job.

[Cort Haus]

The "I'd prefer to sign on" crowd were all in the programme too.

"I ain't working in no cornfield".

[Dauphin]

One of them said "Foreigners are stealing our jobs, I'd work for £7 an hour but they'd take it for £2, so I can't work" and then subsequently declined a job offer at £7 an hour, prefering instead to crack open a can of Stella.

[Cort Haus]

He could get around cans of Stella for an hour's work. He's prefer to use other people's work though.

[Elok]

PH, first the Poles were invaded by Hitler, then they lived under the Soviet boot for decades. It's simply not fair to inflict Chavs on them.