Nah mate, I don't want to work in like no cornfield

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Farm labor jobs would actually pay well if businesses didn't employ immigrants.

Bull. Such jobs have always been exempt from the minimum wage. More expensive farm labor = more expensive food for consumers, including other laborers in other industries.

Also, the fact that immigrants do these jobs creates a stigma.

Purely physical jobs always carry a stigma, and the further from civilization, the bigger the stigma.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by GePap
Bull. Such jobs have always been exempt from the minimum wage.

What does minimum wage have to do with it. Farm labor jobs can pay as much as 25 dollars an hour when there are no illegals available. I know this for a fact.

More expensive farm labor = more expensive food for consumers, including other laborers in other industries.

Everything costs more if wages are higher, but not proportionately. One dollar in labor costs might cause 50 cents in product costs. That's not a good reason to have suppressed wages.

Purely physical jobs always carry a stigma, and the further from civilization, the bigger the stigma.

No they don't. Plenty of people like to do physical work. They just don't want to do it if it's "Mexican work." It's the same reason why men don't become nurses.

[GePap]

Having looked at this report:

http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/current/FarmLabo/FarmLabo-02-15-2008.pdf

The wages for farm labor are fine, even including illegals. They have the ability of being higher than service sector minimum wage jobs.

Question is, where would these laborers come from? You really think suburban or urban Americans would move in mass to farms? Or that farm kids would stay back home to do these jobs? Specially anyone who got anything higher than a high school degree?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by GePap
Question is, where would these laborers come from? You really think suburban or urban Americans would move in mass to farms? Or that farm kids would stay back home to do these jobs? Specially anyone who got anything higher than a high school degree?

Yes, I do. You seem to be under the impression that life is good in the city for the urban poor and that they have plenty of job opportunities. I think many of them would gladly move to a rural town for work.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Yes, I do. You seem to be under the impression that life is good in the city for the urban poor and that they have plenty of job opportunities. I think many of them would gladly move to a rural town for work.

First of all, I have had plenty of exposure to urban poor and with job issues for them - having worked in two jobs were interaction with the urban poor was a common thing, as was going to where they lived.

Your idea that urban people would move in throngs to the farms to do labor is laughable. Hell, most urban poor's families in the past used to do farm labor, and moved to the cities to escape that. Now the jobs they fled to get don;t exist, but don;t kid yourself Kid if you think people living in inner City Detroit, to take a particularly relevant example, would be jumping in line to be shipped to say Iowa to work in the corn fields. And it isn;t because it's "Mexican" labor, because one, a lot of urban poor are Hispanics, and two, because even in Cities there is competition between "Mexicans" and what I guess you would label as "non-Mexicans" for labor such as food service, hospitality service, and construction jobs.

[Zoid]

£7/hour?? That's a very decent pay for picking squash... But I guess the fine british lads wouldn't do it even if it payed twice that since it actually demands WORK... Much easier to spend the day in the pub in your sweatsuit complaining about the darkies taking jobs from the salt of the earth english blokes... Idiots!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by GePap
Hell, most urban poor's families in the past used to do farm labor, and moved to the cities to escape that.

They only thing that they escaped was poverty and unemployment. They didn't mind the work. In fact, farm work is much better than factory work.

Now the jobs they fled to get don;t exist, but don;t kid yourself Kid if you think people living in inner City Detroit, to take a particularly relevant example, would be jumping in line to be shipped to say Iowa to work in the corn fields.

What is particularly bad about picking corn? It seems like a decent way to make a living. Hell, I'd much rather feed pigs slop than feed humans burgers. In fact, I'd rather do that than do what I do now, prepare tax returns for humans. And don't think I can't handle labor because I can. I've done plenty of it. No problem.

And it isn;t because it's "Mexican" labor, because one, a lot of urban poor are Hispanics, and two, because even in Cities there is competition between "Mexicans" and what I guess you would label as "non-Mexicans" for labor such as food service, hospitality service, and construction jobs.

Mexican-Americans don't always consider themselves akin to Mexican immigrant workers.

[Dinner]

I could see how a job paying $36,000 a year would be attractive to someone in Eastern Europe even if it is manual labor for 60 hours a week.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kidicious



They only thing that they escaped was poverty and unemployment. They didn't mind the work. In fact, farm work is much better than factory work.

Poverty, yes. Unemployment?

And exactly how is farm work "much better" than a factory job? You really think those hundreds of millions of fully employed Chinese farmers have moved to China's cities because they want to downgrade their labor situation??

What is particularly bad about picking corn? It seems like a decent way to make a living. Hell, I'd much rather feed pigs slop than feed humans burgers. In fact, I'd rather do that than do what I do now, prepare tax returns for humans. And don't think I can't handle labor because I can. I've done plenty of it. No problem.

Sorry Kid, but your personal preferences hardly make for an argument - it should be obvious from your time here on these boards that even most people in P{oly do not share your personal opinions.

Mexican-Americans don't always consider themselves akin to Mexican immigrant workers.

1. I said Hispanics, not "Mexicans"
2. You still have not answered the question.

It's pretty simple, isn't it? Why don't you get cracking and set up a program to drive urban poor to farm areas so that they can enjoy the joys of farm labor that on average pays more than many of the service sector jobs they might end up getting in the inner City? And while you are at it, ditch your tax accountant job and become one with the land.

[Zoid]

I blame society for the notion that manual labour is for the stupid and/or poor.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Zoid
I blame society for the notion that manual labour is for the stupid and/or poor.

This prejudice won;t change, and in fact can only get worse as more and more people try to get academic degrees.

Also, the thing is that the higher the price of manual labor becomes, the greater the incentive to mechanize and remove even the need for manual laborers.

[Dinner]

[Zoid]

GePap, that is true. Unfortunately...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by GePap
Poverty, yes. Unemployment?

Yes, believe it or not, unemployment is not just a symptom of the city.

And exactly how is farm work "much better" than a factory job? You really think those hundreds of millions of fully employed Chinese farmers have moved to China's cities because they want to downgrade their labor situation??

For one, it's outdoors many times. People generally prefer to work outdoors.

I suppose it is generally considered better if it pays more though.

What is particularly bad about picking corn? It seems like a decent way to make a living. Hell, I'd much rather feed pigs slop than feed humans burgers. In fact, I'd rather do that than do what I do now, prepare tax returns for humans. And don't think I can't handle labor because I can. I've done plenty of it. No problem.

Sorry Kid, but your personal preferences hardly make for an argument - it should be obvious from your time here on these boards that even most people in P{oly do not share your personal opinions.

I'm glad that people here don't share my opinion. If they ever start then I will have something to worry about.

The fact is that I've spent much of my life poor. I'm not middle class now, or even lower middle class when you consider my debt payments. I'm exactly the type of person that would consider working in a rural area. In fact, I already have. So have a lot of people in Oklahoma City that I know. Jobs have been created here because the illegals have been fired. People are already taking jobs in farming communities. FACT

1. I said Hispanics, not "Mexicans"
2. You still have not answered the question.

It's pretty simple, isn't it? Why don't you get cracking and set up a program to drive urban poor to farm areas so that they can enjoy the joys of farm labor that on average pays more than many of the service sector jobs they might end up getting in the inner City? And while you are at it, ditch your tax accountant job and become one with the land.

Like I said. The urban poor already take farm labor jobs. They do it everyday. No need to start a program for it, allthough I support any government program that will help unemployed get jobs. If they need transportation and temp housing, I'm all for that. Taht would definitely help.

[Dinner]

BTW it's pretty damn obvious that most 1st worlders would prefer not to do the jobs most immigrants do. If the wages were high enough then they would be willing to do them, true, but we're talking big increases in costs.