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Drinking, parades, the Church and a dead Irishman

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  • Drinking, parades, the Church and a dead Irishman

    COLUMBUS, Ohio - That famous saint named Patrick will have his green-drenched party this year, but it's unclear when the guests are supposed to arrive.

    For the first time since 1940, St. Patrick's Day will fall during Holy Week, the sacred seven days preceding Easter.

    Because of the overlap, liturgical rules dictate that no mass in honour of the saint can be celebrated on Monday, March 17, according to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

    But a few Roman Catholic leaders are asking for even more moderation in their dioceses - they want parades and other festivities kept out of Holy Week as well.


    Bishop Kevin Boland of the Diocese of Savannah, Georgia, wrote to practically every agency in his city, from the Chamber of Commerce to the Board of Education, saying the diocese was changing the date of its celebration this year.

    In response, the citywide Irish festival was moved to Friday, March 14, when schools will close and bagpipe-driven parties will carry into the streets.

    More than half a million people stream into the Southern city for the festival, one of the country's largest St. Patrick's Day affairs, said Bret Bell, Savannah's public information director.

    Savannah bars will be open March 17, but no organized events will be held that day, he said.

    "The city has a very strong Irish Catholic community, a very traditional Irish Catholic community," Bell said. "They attend mass regularly. And the last thing they want to do is get in the bad graces of the Catholic Church."

    Philadelphia has also moved its parade date to avoid giving offence, and Milwaukee is hitting the streets sooner than usual, too.

    But in Columbus, the Shamrock Club is going ahead with its March 17 parade, drawing protests from the local bishop. A handful of Irish-American politicians have lined up behind church leaders, breaking with tradition by refusing to march in the parade.

    In a letter last fall, the Catholic Diocese of Columbus told the Shamrock Club, the group that organizes the parade, that Bishop Frederick Campbell wanted "all observances honouring St. Patrick" - religious or otherwise - removed from Holy Week.

    "It's not a sin to celebrate your Irish culture," countered Mark Dempsey, the club's president.

    "Actually, you're born Irish first," he said, "and then you're baptized Catholic."

    Not all Columbus Irish groups agree. Members of the local chapter of the Ancient Order of Hibernians, a national Irish Catholic organization, will skip the parade and will instead join the March 15 parade in Dublin, a Columbus suburb.

    In New York and Boston, with legendary St. Patrick's events planned by the cities' large Irish communities, bishops are taking a hands-off approach, saying the church has no part in planning civic celebrations.

    The Archdiocese of New York, which has St. Patrick as a patron saint, will hold the liturgical celebration for St. Patrick on March 14. Edward Cardinal Egan will then say mass on Monday, the same day as the parade, and will review the procession from the steps of St. Patrick's Cathedral, archdiocesan spokesman Joseph Zwilling said.

    Boston's parade remains set for Sunday, March 16, which is Palm Sunday and the first day of Holy Week.

    Other public dustups over St. Patrick's Day have erupted in past years, including a protracted fight between gay Irish groups and city leaders in New York and Boston over the right to march in the parades, which the Catholic Church has steadfastly opposed.

    But a calendar conflict is a rare event: Holy Week won't clash with St. Patrick's Day again until 2160. This year's peculiar schedule also sees the feast day of St. Joseph - honoured by Catholics as the husband of the Virgin Mary - celebrated March 15, four days early.

    Italian enclaves in many U.S. cities mark St. Joseph's with their own parades, but not on the level inspired by his Irish counterpart, so that shift hasn't produced any public grousing.

    The St. Patrick's Day clash has a touch of the Christmas commercialism debate, about a holiday whose religious roots are tangled up in decidedly secular traditions. In most St. Patrick's traditions, parades are intertwined with mass.

    "It's kind of a test of clerical power, in a way," said Mike Cronin, co-author of "The Wearing of the Green: History of St. Patrick's Day." "I think there's a real issue then around organizing committees saying, 'Do we need the church, or do we not?"'

    The United States remains one of the few countries in the world to retain any religious traces of St. Patrick's Day, Cronin said. In Ireland, where the government sponsors the Dublin parade, the holiday has morphed into an arts festival that draws millions of people, he said.

    Recognizing that, bishops there have moved the feast of the country's patron saint to March 15 this year. March 17 will remain an official Irish day off work and the Dublin parade will go on as scheduled.

    Had Ireland's bishops shown the same insistence as some of their American counterparts, Cronin said, their comments almost certainly would have been ignored.

    "It'd be like the (American) bishops arguing to move Super Bowl Sunday," he said.

    The conflict is uncomfortable for some Irish-American Catholics. Franklin County Treasurer Ed Leonard bowed out of the Columbus parade but hopes a resolution might be reached.

    "We wouldn't be celebrating St. Patrick's Day," he said, "were it not for the religious component of it."




    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
    "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

  • #2
    But a few Roman Catholic leaders are asking for even more moderation in their dioceses - they want parades and other festivities kept out of Holy Week as well.


    What's green, 3km long, and has an ***hole every 2 feet?

    THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
    AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
    AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
    DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

    Comment


    • #3
      This is a strange situation, as noted. It will be interesting.
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm very amused they don't bother to mention Chicago in that article, one of the most famous US celebrations.

        Perhaps it's because we're far more sane about these things and normally do it on a Saturday anyway
        <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
        I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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        • #5
          And miss the opportunity to party on a weekday?
          "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
          "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, have the parades the Saturday before. We can still booze it up the 17th.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

            Comment


            • #7
              This is strange. Friday's not much better, because you're supposed to practice moderation on Fridays during Lent. Saturday's bad, because you can't sleep in on Palm Sunday.

              Anyways, it looks like the most conflict about it is in Columbus. To be honest, this doesn't surprise me. There are few catholics in the city, so the city's celebration of Saint Patrick's Day probably isn't that religious an event.
              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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              • #8
                I think every university is just going to stick 2 finders up at the church and party anyway.
                You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Krill
                  I think every university is just going to stick 2 finders up at the church and party anyway.
                  What will they find?
                  THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
                  AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
                  AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
                  DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well it is very important!

                    I know none of the non-Catholics will really understand how important it is, because I didn't either until I became one.

                    It basically is a week set aside for the church. Friday isn't a solution because that's Good Friday, which is a holy day of obligation and one of mourning. The only real solution would be to put it on the following Friday for a St. Patrick's day celebration, after Holy Week is finished.

                    I don't see why the arts Festival should care about the date, because the Monday or the Friday following is all the same to them.

                    As for thumbing your nose at the church, well let me say, it's like having MLK day the same day as Mardi Gras. I somehow doubt Mardi Gras would move for MLK day.
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                    • #11
                      To a drunken student I think they'd be quite happy to just ignore MLK day and hold their own Mardi Gras, and good luck stopping them.
                      You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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                      • #12
                        Why would a drunken student care if St. Patricks day were one friday or another? Having it the following Friday would be all the same to them.
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mainly because, in durham for example, the students won't be at the university, they will have gone home by the following friday.
                          You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                            Well it is very important!

                            I know none of the non-Catholics will really understand how important it is, because I didn't either until I became one.

                            It basically is a week set aside for the church. Friday isn't a solution because that's Good Friday, which is a holy day of obligation and one of mourning. The only real solution would be to put it on the following Friday for a St. Patrick's day celebration, after Holy Week is finished.

                            I don't see why the arts Festival should care about the date, because the Monday or the Friday following is all the same to them.

                            As for thumbing your nose at the church, well let me say, it's like having MLK day the same day as Mardi Gras. I somehow doubt Mardi Gras would move for MLK day.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              St Patrick was actually English.
                              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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