Best tank, IFV edition

[Serb]

Originally posted by Patroklos
I think it basically provides the tank an auto canon which is much more apporpriate than a MBT main gun in urban enviroments in the vast majority of cases.

Two 30mm auto cannons (900 rounds)
two 30mm automatic grenade launchers (600 rounds)
a 7.62mm machine gun (2000 rounds)
four ATGMs.

So that begs the question, why not just sent BMPTXYZWHATEVER into urban areas without the tank and be done with it?

Why not just sent your destroyers/cruisers into the Persian Gulf without the aircraft carrier and be done with it?

[Serb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Best tank, IFV edition

Originally posted by onodera


And Bradley-3, the Cavalry Support Vehicle? (Damn, this American use of the word "cavalry" cracks me up every time.)

The M3 Cavalry Fighting Vehicle [CFV] is exactly the same chassis as the M2 IFV with some minor internal differences. The M3 is a cavalry/scout vehicle, instead of carrying 6 dismounts in the payload compartment, the M3 carries a pair of scouts, additional radios, ammunition, and TOW and Dragon or Javelin missile rounds. In fact, the only noticeable differences between the M2 and the M3 are that the external firing ports for the squad M16s are absent on the M3.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m2.htm

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Serb - you forgot to address some of my questions.

I'm frankly interested to know where the BMP-3/4 and BMPT were used in combat zones - what were their successes / shortcomings.

Operators
A majority of BMP-3s are in use outside of Russia with Abu Dhabi (the United Arab Emirates) being the largest

operator:

Azerbaijan - 4
Cyprus - 43
Greece- 450 BMP-3M/F on order.
Indonesia - 20 BMP-3F on order, scheduled to deliver in 2008
South Korea - 70
Kuwait - 110
Russia - estimated 800 of which 140 in European Russia
Ukraine - 4 [6]
United Arab Emirates - 598 with "Namut" thermal sight and other modifications. Might be further upgraded with modular armor "Kaktus" and UTD-32 engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP-3

I have not heard about military conflicts in these countries recently (and don't have complete analysis for the 2nd Chechen war).
BMPT entered service only 2 years ago.

I also hope you have some more information regarding command and control possibilities of your bronitechnika.

Èç âñåé ðîññèéñêîé áðîíåòåõíèêè ÁÌÏÒ èìååò ñàìûå âûñîêèå âîçìîæíîñòè ïî îáíàðóæåíèþ öåëåé — çà ñ÷åò âêëþ÷åíèÿ â ñîñòàâ êîìïëåêñà âîîðóæåíèÿ ñîâðåìåííîé àâòîìàòèçèðîâàííîé ñèñòåìû óïðàâëåíèÿ îãíåì «Ðàìêà».  ñâîåì ñîñòàâå ÑÓÎ èìååò êîìáèíèðîâàííûé ïðèöåë íàâîä÷èêà, êîíñòðóêòèâíî îáúåäèíÿþùèé îïòè÷åñêèé, òåïëîâèçèîííûé, ëàçåðíûé äàëüíîìåðíûé êàíàëû è êàíàë óïðàâëåíèÿ ðàêåòîé. Ïîëå çðåíèÿ ïðèöåëà èìååò íåçàâèñèìóþ ñòàáèëèçàöèþ â äâóõ ïëîñêîñòÿõ. Ïðèöåë îáåñïå÷èâàåò îáíàðóæåíèå öåëåé íî÷üþ, à òàêæå ïðè ïëîõèõ ïîãîäíûõ óñëîâèÿõ (ñíåã, òóìàí, äîæäü, ïûëü, äûì) íà äàëüíîñòÿõ íå ìåíåå 3500 ì. Êîìàíäèð ìàøèíû èìååò ïàíîðàìíûé ïðèöåë ñ îïòè÷åñêèì, íèçêîóðîâíåâûì òåëåâèçèîííûì è ëàçåðíûì äàëüíîìåðíûì êàíàëàìè. Ïîëå çðåíèÿ êîìàíäèðñêîãî ïðèöåëà òàêæå èìååò íåçàâèñèìóþ ñòàáèëèçàöèþ â äâóõ ïëîñêîñòÿõ. Ïðèöåë äàåò êîìàíäèðó âîçìîæíîñòü âåñòè êðóãîâîå íàáëþäåíèå è ðàçâåäêó öåëåé, è äëÿ ýòîãî íåò íåîáõîäèìîñòè âåðòåòü ãîëîâîé, äîñòàòî÷íî ëèøü íåáîëüøîãî äâèæåíèÿ ïàëüöà ðóêè. Ïðè íåîáõîäèìîñòè êîìàíäèð ìîæåò âûâåñòè èçîáðàæåíèå òåïëîâèçèîííîãî ïðèöåëà íàâîä÷èêà íà ñâîå âèäåîóñòðîéñòâî.  ðåæèìå «Äóáëü» îí ìîæåò âåñòè ýôôåêòèâíûé îãîíü èç îñíîâíîãî îðóæèÿ, ñïàðåííîãî ïóëåìåòà è êîìïëåêñà óïðàâëÿåìîãî âîîðóæåíèÿ...
...
Íà ÁÌÏÒ óñòàíàâëèâàåòñÿ àïïàðàòóðà òîïîïðèâÿçêè è íàâèãàöèè. Îíà êîìïëåêñè-ðóåòñÿ ñ ïðèåìîèíäèêàòîðíîé àïïàðàòóðîé ãëîáàëüíîé ñïóòíèêîâîé íàâèãàöèîííîé ñèñòåìû NAVSTAR/GLONASS.  ñîñòàâ àïïàðàòóðû âõîäÿò ìíîãîôóíêöèîíàëüíàÿ ïàíåëü óïðàâëåíèÿ, ñïóòíèêîâàÿ àíòåííà è êîìïüþòåðíûé áëîê. Êîìïëåêò îáåñïå÷èâàåò îïðåäåëåíèå è èíäèêàöèþ òåêóùèõ êîîðäèíàò ìåñòîíàõîæäåíèÿ ìàøèíû ñ òî÷íîñòüþ äî 25 ì, èíäèêàöèþ ïîëîæåíèÿ ìàøèíû íà ýëåêòðîííîé êàðòå, ñîõðàíåíèå â ïàìÿòè êîìïüþòåðà ìàðøðóòà åå äâèæåíèÿ è âîçìîæíîñòü óïðàâëåíèÿ êîìàíäèðîì ïîä÷èíåííûìè áîåâûìè ìàøèíàìè.

http://naztech.org/bmpt/

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

let's consider a very very strong guerilla resistance as a modern enough army, assuming they have advanced AT missiles (usually of ruski origin )

You think the Hezbollah is a modern army?
That bunch of ragheaded volunteeres (with total strength of less than a standard infantry division) managed to get a stalemate against your regular "hi-tech" force.
Great, just great! You could be proud.

what threats did your infantry vehicles face in chechnya?

The war is over long time ago.

how did they perform?

Fine.

compare that to:

And? We have a similar concept of the digital battlefield.

http://btvt.narod.ru/1/ak06/ak06.htm

this means that everyone shares data about targets etc.

I know what CCCC&I means, thank you.

and... it even has a tiolet for it's 11 troops!!!

Yeah, a bucket Mk.II.

[Serb]

Hot video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ane4jB35Hs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W69OUVMyDFw

Your belowed LCD monitors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yH3H1GNtzA&feature=related

Enjoy.

[Dinner]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Best tank, IFV edition

Originally posted by onodera


And Bradley-3, the Cavalry Support Vehicle? (Damn, this American use of the word "cavalry" cracks me up every time.)

The use of the term cavalry has been updated/adopted to include the Air Cavalry; meaning infantry mounted on helicopter instead of horses. Air mobile infantry is an excellent concept which has proven itself in several wars.

Originally posted by Lancer




2d ACR...Toujour Pret!

I served briefly with the 2nd ACR in Al Kut.

[Serb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjBiy2nikBI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lPc0fpgP8U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTr5p2E9kAQ&feature=related

WTF?

In any case:

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Serb
I have not heard about military conflicts in these countries recently (and don't have complete analysis for the 2nd Chechen war).
BMPT entered service only 2 years ago.

would be interesting to see if it helps

http://naztech.org/bmpt/

that is a much better source, and what is quoted does seem cool enough.

None of those c&c systems were mentioned in any of the previous links you gave / from wiki.

the map thing is huge and the ability to see the battle field with your own and enemy forces is where it's at Israel is putting alot in that too.

Did the BTR3 get the same C&C upgrades as the BMPT?

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Serb


You think the Hezbollah is a modern army?
That bunch of ragheaded volunteeres (with total strength of less than a standard infantry division) managed to get a stalemate against your regular "hi-tech" force.
Great, just great! You could be proud.

If you're gonna spew nonsense then I'll be forced to spank your ass.

They are better trained and equipped than you think.

Hezb bought (through Syrian and Iranian dealers) lots of advanced AT weapons and lots of very good western made VISINT devices. And Hezb forces are trained by Iranian special forces.

Iranian forces were trained by.... (guess) Israel in the 70s.

Not all or very well trained but they employ excellent tactics and very keen ideas for assymetrical battle. Also they are very well acquainted with their environment.

We did not have a stalemate with them, because sadly we hardly fought them, as our air-force loving former chief of staff thought we could bomb them to death... a poor ass concept when fighting an irregular army.

IDF has not really been defeated in ground incidents. In rare instances that we had ground combat we kicked their asses. I admit though it wasn't always a picnic since intelligence was poorly handled ('too classified to use') and the commanding officers were really inexperienced. Fighting against the rookie palestinians for 7 years have got commanders used to having 100% intel, and zero need of tactics. That is crap.

The war is over long time ago.

don't you still have anti-terrorist operations continually in that general area?

And? We have a similar concept of the digital battlefield.
http://btvt.narod.ru/1/ak06/ak06.htm

a bit longish so i didn't read everything.

i think we're getting at the mark much earlier than you guys, but that's understandable.

an interesting site though.

also proud to say that it constantly mentions israeli concepts and systems

Yeah, a bucket Mk.II.

Hey, you need it more dude.
you have a cold cold winter so taking a poop on an ice cold metal bucket is horrible...