Best tank, IFV edition

[Serb]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Jack of all trades, master of none

Beside the mark. BMPT is not a universal weapon.

How do you say "gold plating" in Russian?

Pozolota?

[onodera]

Re: Re: Best tank, IFV edition

Originally posted by Serb
Good for you! It's my pleasure to knowthat while you are still trying to make something better than our IFVs, we have an entirely new concept - BMPT. It's Tank Support Fighting Vehicle. Nobody else has such toys.

I was under impression that Bradley is a tank support fighting vehicle as well.

[Serb]

Re: Re: Re: Best tank, IFV edition

Originally posted by onodera

I was under impression that Bradley is a tank support fighting vehicle as well.

The mission of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle [BFV] is to provide mobile protected transport of an infantry squad to critical points on the battlefield and to perform cavalry scout missions.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m2.htm

So Bradley is a typical IFV.
BMPT has other mission and doesn't carry any infantry within.

[Patroklos]

Beside the mark. BMPT is not a universal weapon.

We had the same problem with the Bradley. It has just enough anti-tank weaponry to make it think it has a chance in real armored warfare when it doesn't, and just enough extra weight to try and do the above to make it less effective than dedicated IFVs. All wrapped up int a package that costs just as much as one convential tank and one conventional IFV.

Pozolota?

Do you know what the term I refer to is? I am sure you guys have the same concept in Russia. Basically, if you let the military do so (or engineers as well, they love to tinker) they will cover equipment in every bell and wistle they can think of regardless of cost or real expected needs.

"Ooo Oooo Oooo, missile launchers, I want those! And how about a flame thower, yeah that would be awsome! And some magnetic mines! What, I don't need magnetic mines? Common, you can't think of ANY reason I might night need them? Exaclty, strap em on! Now about that nuclear reactor...."

Thats how we got atomic artilery and atomic cruise missiles. I am sure Russia has similar boondogles.

BMPT has other mission and doesn't carry any infantry within.

Then why did you post it into an IFV thread?

In any case if it isn't a MBT and it isn't an IFV, that basically makes it a light tank. Or obsolete for over 70 years upon costuction

[Theben]

Originally posted by Serb

The word for tank is "tank".
"Tankov" is the genitive case of noun "tank".

I didn't know Serbian tanks had genitals.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Patroklos

Then why did you post it into an IFV thread?

Because there is no thread for such fighting vehicles. BMPT is a sole representative of its class.

In any case if it isn't a MBT and it isn't an IFV, that basically makes it a light tank. Or obsolete for over 70 years upon costuction

Nope, that makes it TSFV, a new class of fighting vehicles designed to protect MBTs from the variety of modern threats.

[Sirotnikov]

All around the world. They are doing fine.

afaik they are being paraded as hell, but rarely are they used in real conflicts

i mean, in the ME they are sometimes used, but usually lose. much of that can be blamed on the poor operating and tactical skills of arab armies.

I can ask the same about any modern army.

let's consider a very very strong guerilla resistance as a modern enough army, assuming they have advanced AT missiles (usually of ruski origin )

what threats did your infantry vehicles face in chechnya? how did they perform?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMPT

http://www.hudi2.republika.pl/BMPT.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP-4

i've read them and their linking articles
very little on C4 abilities, even in the BMP-3K version

compare that to:

The final design will include an ergonomically designed driver's compartment, similar to that of the Merkava tank, fitted with large vision blocks and electro-optical driver's viewing devices enabling effective performance under all visibility conditions. At least four remotely controlled video cameras are used to provide the crew, driver and commander with unobstructed peripheral view. The Namer will become a fully networked armored fighting vehicle. Part of its C4 equipment will be the new Battle Management System/Infantry, designed by Elbit Systems to support the dismounted 'Integrated Advanced Soldier' (IAS) system.

this means that everyone shares data about targets etc.

A new and very sophisticated Israeli Elbit Systems BMS (Battle Management System; Hebrew: צי"ד) has been designed, constructed, and tested. It is a centralised system which displays battlefield data on color plasma-TV-like screens. It collects data from tracked units and UAVs deployed in theater, and immediately distributes it in encrypted form to all other tank units in a given theater.

and... it even has a tiolet for it's 11 troops!!!

[Patroklos]

Nope, that makes it TSFV, a new class of fighting vehicles designed to protect MBTs from the variety of modern threats.

And how is that different than the light tank AKA support tank of WWII vintage that was abandoned by all sides for the MBT concept soon after?

[Patroklos]

and... it even has a tiolet for it's 11 troops!!!

Gold plating

[Sirotnikov]

It's Tank Support Fighting Vehicle. Nobody else has such toys.

Did you ever think that it might be due to limitations in your tanks?

Perhaps, other nation's tanks don't need such toys, because they have better turrets, tracking devices, target acquisition, C4 abilities, and are easily capable to defeat a load of varied targets such as infantry, helcopters, anti-tank vehicles, other tanks etc?

i do have to hand it that none of the israeli weapons are airborne or waterborne, but our reality doesn't require for the conquering of europe

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Gold plating

In a weapon saturated environment you often can not afford to leave the IFV for days, because you'll be sniped with an RPG or a regular weapon.

[Riesstiu IV]

You don't need a toilet. Just poop in a bucket and have the lowest grunt load feces into a turret. Then fire away at your enemies.

[Sirotnikov]

no such thing as low grunts
everyone are equal.

[Patroklos]

In a weapon saturated environment you often can not afford to leave the IFV for days, because you'll be sniped with an RPG or a regular weapon.

Thats what you get for not putting a high cyclic rate cannon on your APC

A few explosive cannon shells later, and you are good to go for a squat an plop

no such thing as low grunts
everyone are equal.

You might want to let your paymasters know that.

[Meticulous Man]

Military