Exams

[LordShiva]

Wiglaf

[DrSpike]

I always preferred exams to coursework. In coursework (to use the example above) it's harder to distinguish yourself from the hardworking dumbasses, and this has to be exacerbated by teh internet.

And any examination process should be able to separate wheat from chaff.

[Whaleboy]

It's a pretty pisspoor way of doing that. I accept that coursework isn't ideal for the exceptional student but I suspect that's because when there are criteria that do not account for you reading around the subject, any fool can learn the syllabus. The exceptional student will read around and coursework represents a fabulous opportunity for the bright student to demonstrate that. We just need to get out of the "box-ticking" mentality for education pre university imo.

[DrSpike]

Not only do I think we need to keep exams I also think we need to make them harder, or soon half the entrants will get A grades. Sorry about that.

[Whaleboy]

I'm not too fussed about the grades, ignoring the times in 2002/3 when I took exams while stoned or drunk, I'm normally hitting A's - as has been the case so far in these courses *touch wood*.

That owes more to the fact that I can write well while under pressure and against the clock rather than my ability with the subject itself. The fact that I wasn't 100% on Friday made me notice it, hence the argument.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
It's a pretty pisspoor way of doing that. I accept that coursework isn't ideal for the exceptional student but I suspect that's because when there are criteria that do not account for you reading around the subject, any fool can learn the syllabus. The exceptional student will read around and coursework represents a fabulous opportunity for the bright student to demonstrate that. We just need to get out of the "box-ticking" mentality for education pre university imo.

The mission of universities has changed. They are now institutions of mass society geared in large part towards preparing people for work. Most students have a mild interest in the subjects they study, although a few develop a passion for them, but most want a degree so that they can get a better job.

Moreover, to be fair, most students don't have the time to devote themselves to their education. Many have 20 hour a week jobs that they need to do in order to make ends meet. How are these people supposed to find the time to write a senior thesis? Many of them are barely managing financially to stay in university.

[Whaleboy]

It's a pretty sad indictment of the education system where you are that that is the situation . In the UK, students cope by getting themseves into crippling debt .

I think you're right about the fact that universities and further education is basically geared up like a "toothpaste tube" to squeeze out service sector workers. That suits the "box ticking" approach just fine but it doesn't do much for those who actually care about their subjects, for the sake of the subject .

[Lazerus]

Moreover, to be fair, most students don't have the time to devote themselves to their education. Many have 20 hour a week jobs that they need to do in order to make ends meet. How are these people supposed to find the time to write a senior thesis? Many of them are barely managing financially to stay in university.

Insomnia helps with that to an extent

[Agathon]

The problem is that they have to work. Everyone, employers and students alike would benefit if university students were fully funded and prevented from taking outside jobs of more than 10 hours a week, as well as making it harder to get a degree.

The rationale being that you are on society's payroll, so you better work your ass off, brutha. The students get a better education, and employers get more competent hires. Everyone wins.

Scholarship students are always great to teach because their funding requires them to actually work hard. Would that all students were like that.

[Snotty]

I think it would be more motivating for general everyday students if they are funding themselves rather than if the government is funding them. If you have to repay your debt you are less likely to spend that university time slacking off as you are only ripping yourself off.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Snotty
I think it would be more motivating for general everyday students if they are funding themselves rather than if the government is funding them. If you have to repay your debt you are less likely to spend that university time slacking off as you are only ripping yourself off.

Except it isn't true. The slacking off happens because they have to get outside jobs to keep their heads above water. Sure, there are lazy students. However, there are many more who end up juggling a job and their coursework.

If we raised standards, it would quickly eliminate the incentive to slack off. But if we do that while students have 20 hour a week jobs, then we'll just end up with competent people failing, and that wastes everyone's time.

[Whaleboy]

Ag, I think it depends on the students and if they really want the qualification. Until November I was working a 50-hour week while studying for 5 hours a day. I took a couple months out so I could nail the revision but I'll be doing the same from next week. It's hard, but it can be done.

[Ben Kenobi]

The problem is that they have to work. Everyone, employers and students alike would benefit if university students were fully funded and prevented from taking outside jobs of more than 10 hours a week, as well as making it harder to get a degree.

I think students ought to be permitted to manage their time outside of class the way they see fit.

If a student wants to slack, he should be allowed to do so and get the marks reflected in his coursework.

I've gotten A's and C-'s and now I advise the students I tutor that it isn't about the work. If the prof likes you you will get an A, if they don't it's a C-. I tell them to write their papers to fit what the prof likes and they will do well.

Works like a charm.

[Starchild]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I've gotten A's and C-'s and now I advise the students I tutor that it isn't about the work. If the prof likes you you will get an A, if they don't it's a C-. I tell them to write their papers to fit what the prof likes and they will do well.

Works like a charm.

That's a mockery of academia. You should write about what you want and defend it. You just advocate ego stroking.

[Ben Kenobi]

That's what I did myself.

The grades reflected the teacher's position on the issues.

The teachers who liked me gave me an A, and the ones who didn't gave me C-, I had no grades in between the two.

That's the state of so called academia.