More Religious Nutters

[Blake]

Originally posted by Blake
Bad things can happen for many reasons. An earthquake can demolish your house. That isn't kamma, it's just nature.
But if an earthquake demolishing your house results in a fear of earthquakes, that fear is kamma. It's due to a delusional belief arising from experience "OMG! The earth is out to get me!".

And to expand on this.

Much delusion, much suffering arises from people trying to make things about THEM.

An earthquake demolishes someone's house and they bemoan "What did I do to deserve this?!"
They are making it about them... when in reality it was just nature doing what nature does. The wise just say "Ah so" and get on with things.

All the time, people try to make what happens, about them. Or they try to make things they do, not about them. Whatever is more comfortable for them.
Instead of just seeing the truth.

Some things which happen, are the results of their thoughts and actions.
Other things, are not.


Sometimes when you do bad things to people, bad things return to you. Molest little boys and become a very undesired neighbor, type thing. This can be said to be creating kamma in the minds of other people. If you do things which gives others reason to fear you, then they will fear you, that fear causes them to treat you differently... in a sense, it is your kamma. In the same way, be kind to other people, and likely, they will be kind to you, they will put a good word in for you, maybe. Reputation spreads.



"Reasons" for things are too subjective, don't look for reasons.
But all things which arise do so based on causes and conditions.

Science looks at this phenomena in the world.
Buddhism looks at this phenomena in the mind.

The nice thing about Buddhism, is it doesn't step on the toes of science. Science is free to explain the world, buddhism is content to explain the mind and leave the world to science. And happily, science is happy to leave Buddhism the mind. Science rarely goes further than poking around in that gray goopey blob of fat found in skulls.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Elok
I'm less crazy than Aggy? You do like to damn with faint praise, don't you?

Oops. Bad on me there.

Seriously, though, from a psychological perspective "disorder" and "problem" are synonymous.

No they aren't. I'm not a psychologist. I can't diagnose you. I have no idea if you have a disorder or not. ****, have the time psychologists misdiagnose people. There is certainly a difference though between someone who has psychological problems (I would say everyone), and someone who has a psychological disorder (if you have ever been married to one you would know that).

Arrogance is a psychological problem for example. Narcisism can be a disorder, or it can also just be a problem.

And you blame religion for that? No offense, but I'm not sure how I'm the one acting in existential bad faith here. Also, your words remind me of Screwtape's: "Don't forget to use the 'heads I win, tails you lose' argument. If the thing he prays for doesn't happen, then that is one more proof petitionary prayers don't work; if it does happen, he will, of course, be able to see some of the physical causes which led up to it, and 'therefore it would have happened anyway', and thus a granted prayer becomes just as good a proof as a denied one that prayers are ineffective."



Bad people choose to be bad. Suffering is the material consequence of sin. God is almighty, but yields us the power to make bad choices if we so please. Pretty basic theology.

That's all nonsense. I don't want to get into a debate about any of that. The question is, why don't you accept the obvious answer to the question, that God does not exist, or atleast he is dead or not powerfull.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Elok
BlackCat, if you're going to define all religion as "superstition" by default, you leave me no choice but to define all atheism as "douchebaggery."

Elok

Now we shouldnt call people names

Because by this your stataing a sdoduchbag is a bad thing, when it in facts takes somethin maybe ;lil nassstyn and makes itn tatse good

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Blake


Reading comprehension skills ftw.

That isn't buddhist kamma. It is the laymans understanding of Karma but it's certainly not buddhist kamma.

Layman understanding of karma:
If you do something bad, the universe will kick your ass.
If you do something good, the universe will reward you.


Buddhist Kamma is more specific.
If you intentionally do something bad, you kick your own ass in the end.


Bad things can happen for many reasons. An earthquake can demolish your house. That isn't kamma, it's just nature.
But if an earthquake demolishing your house results in a fear of earthquakes, that fear is kamma. It's due to a delusional belief arising from experience "OMG! The earth is out to get me!".

I didn't read your post wrong. The problem is that you aren't addressing my point, which is there is no order to the universe. I provide the universe as exibit A. So if there is no order then all religions are false, since they all try to explain the order of the universe.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I didn't read your post wrong. The problem is that you aren't addressing my point, which is there is no order to the universe. I provide the universe as exibit A. So if there is no order then all religions are false, since they all try to explain the order of the universe.

Actually buddhism doesn't, Buddhism just says "Hey, lets get out of here!"

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Blake


Actually buddhism doesn't, Buddhism just says "Hey, lets get out of here!"

Why would there be somewhere to go?

[Blake]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Why would there be somewhere to go?

The path of Buddhism is sometimes described as peeling away the layers of the onion. Like the ego is out near the skin, and the 5 senses are a bit deeper in.

And you attain Nibanna, after having peeled away the final layer .

[Blake]

It's about making peace with things. And being at peace, results in happiness. Once you've made peace with everything, you have the ultimate happiness.

As long as you remain at war with the world, with the world where there is actually no order, no reasons for things, just a big old cauldron of suffering, then you remain miserable - because you do keep on trying to explain it rather than just accepting it.

There's no reason; there's no purpose. Buddhism can be thought of absolutely making the most of life, sure there's no reason and no purpose to things, but that's no reason to be unhappy.

And if you try to find a reason why you should be unhappy, a purpose for being unhappy, then you are a fool . Like everyone else who persists to clinging to this fools game as if it's something important. It's not important. The only thing which is important is peace and freedom (of the mind) and stuff.

[SlowwHand]

Close, but you still sound like you just got out of a dentist's chair.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Blake
It's about making peace with things. And being at peace, results in happiness. Once you've made peace with everything, you have the ultimate happiness.

As long as you remain at war with the world, with the world where there is actually no order, no reasons for things, just a big old cauldron of suffering, then you remain miserable - because you do keep on trying to explain it rather than just accepting it.

There's no reason; there's no purpose. Buddhism can be thought of absolutely making the most of life, sure there's no reason and no purpose to things, but that's no reason to be unhappy.

And if you try to find a reason why you should be unhappy, a purpose for being unhappy, then you are a fool . Like everyone else who persists to clinging to this fools game as if it's something important. It's not important. The only thing which is important is peace and freedom (of the mind) and stuff.

But why are peace and freedom good? Because we want them? Then why do we deserve them? Why should we get them? Without order to the universe nothing is good or bad. Then we don't deserve anything.

[Elok]

I think you're looking for the phrase "personality flaw," not "psychological problem." At least, that's the word I would use for something like arrogance.

Originally posted by Kidicious
That's all nonsense. I don't want to get into a debate about any of that. The question is, why don't you accept the obvious answer to the question, that God does not exist, or atleast he is dead or not powerfull.

Well, to me that raises the question of the origin of morals, but if you can duck out of a debate on theology I can duck out on a debate on the origin of morals. Let me put it this way: "I know Satan exists, because of the way people act. I know God exists, because Satan hasn't destroyed us yet."

Also, Grandpa Troll needs to get off those frigging painkillers, stat.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Kidicious
But why are peace and freedom good? Because we want them? Then why do we deserve them? Why should we get them? Without order to the universe nothing is good or bad. Then we don't deserve anything.

You are born into the fools game.

You are expected to run through mazes and jump through hoops to get food, navigate more mazes and jump through more hoops to find a mate, (more hoops) breed, raise some little fools (and teach them how to navigate the maze and jump through hoops) and then you die, wondering wtf was the point of what you just did.

The other attitude to take, is to sit on your bum and say "No. Not playing!"

Happily the fool's game is self-propagating, the fools themselves run the fools game, there is no gamemaster who is going to punish you for not playing. You really can just not play.
And sure the people who are frenetically playing the fool's game will be like "Heeey you slacker! Stop slacking off having fun! This game is important you know!!!!", you just laugh at them, because sitting on your bum watching the fools run around (and trying to cajole them into joining you) is a million times more fun than playing the fool's game.



"An excess of reason is itself a form of madness"

If you ask "Why should I deserve to be happy", "Why should anyone be happy", that is an excess of reason.

[SlowwHand]

That's a sign of severe depression and general low self-esteem.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Elok

Also, Grandpa Troll needs to get off those frigging painkillers, stat.

Your tellin me

I agree

But first I need to get off your case

your a nice fella

me, loyts of flwasw

sorry

gonna have top worked on em

But ever grateful for for your asssiatance

Gramsps

[Perfection]

Originally posted by Elok
Why does it necessarily have to?

It doesn't. I'm of the opinion it doesn't. I was explaining one reason for my objection.