More Religious Nutters

[Elok]

Originally posted by Perfection
Why the philosophy hate, Elok?

To my mind philosophy, at least in its modern form, is the art of taking obvious truths, removing them from their proper contexts so they lose all meaning, then juggling them around with words like so many rubber balls. The result is a perfectly balanced formulation of ideas that bears very little, if any, resemblance to reality, which is much less polished and sterile.

I don't mind certain individual philosophers, especially the ones from long ago; Aristotle was a terrible writer but quite astute, I suppose the Buddha could be called a philosopher, and Nietzsche, whatever his other faults, had style. I don't know much about David Hume except that he was an outspoken atheist or deist or some such, but if Aggie dislikes him there might well be something to be said for him. As for the discipline as a whole...meh. It hit its peak a few centuries back.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Agathon
Except that those who believe take "God" to refer to a mind independent entity. If you want to make God like unicorns, it's fine by me.

Of course, plenty of people are being idiots with their religious conceptions. But I don't think Elok is one of them. And it doesn't seem to me unreasonable to think that there are superior entities we still don't comprehend governing the order of the universe. In the meantime, religion is a way that people use to refer to certain experiences deemed to be abnormal. Of course, you can study the brain of people and create scientific explanations, but in the end, what does that tell ? Does a scientist who model Buddha's brain gains access to Buddha's wisdom ?

Religion is bull**** on so many levels it's hard to know where to start. For example, how can anyone believe in Christianity when the evidence for Jesus' life is so thin that there's almost no reason to believe that he said or did any of the **** attributed to him.

There is historical proof that he did indeed meet Pilates. As for what he said, we have many official and apocryphal gospels that seem to agree on certain things.

[Omni Rex Draconis]

Not knowing a word almost never used?

Originally posted by Elok
is "Humean" a typo of "human?"

No big deal, unless you actually know of the philosopher.

Originally posted by Elok
I don't know much about David Hume

That's our boy Elok - still having difficulty making the connection.

But then again, that is not surprising for someone who does not believe in the discipline of philosophy, the "love of knowledge".

Elok does not believe in the study of morality; their shall be no studying of ethics, outside of the holy book.

Elok does not believe in thinking about how we know things. The book tells him everything he needs to know about epistemology - just have faith.

Elok does not believe in understanding how things actually work. His metaphysics is simple - God did it.

And Elok certainly does not believe in logic. He proves that with every post he makes.

It is completely outrageous to trash THE founding discipline of education; the PhD at the end of smart people's names means "Doctor of Philosophy"!

But when you say it, Elok, I can believe that you mean it.

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
it doesn't seem to me unreasonable to think that there are superior entities we still don't comprehend governing the order of the universe

On what basis do you postulate the existence of such entities? And even if such beings do exist, you yourself have stated that they are beyond our comprehension. Baseless propositions that lead to no useful conclusions? That is the opposite of reasonable.

[Elok]

I was being facetious; it should have been obvious from my mentioning "Aggie doesn't like him" that I knew he was referring to Hume. I admit it was a very feeble joke, but I was cranky when I wrote it. Like I said: read, re-read, then respond.

Incidentally, are you trolling, or was that strawman hissy-fit for real?

[Kuciwalker]

It is completely outrageous to trash THE founding discipline of education; the PhD at the end of smart people's names means "Doctor of Philosophy"!

Are you a real poster?

[Omni Rex Draconis]

Elok - yeah, I did think it was weird that you mentioned the same philosopher just a few posts down. I hope my joke was funnier.

Elok AND Kuciwalker - yes, or at least as real as anything gets out here on the intarwebs.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris

Of course, plenty of people are being idiots with their religious conceptions. But I don't think Elok is one of them. And it doesn't seem to me unreasonable to think that there are superior entities we still don't comprehend governing the order of the universe. In the meantime, religion is a way that people use to refer to certain experiences deemed to be abnormal. Of course, you can study the brain of people and create scientific explanations, but in the end, what does that tell ? Does a scientist who model Buddha's brain gains access to Buddha's wisdom ?

This is a question of epistemic warrant. Is there anything to justify belief in such an entity. The answer is presumably "no".

There is historical proof that he did indeed meet Pilates. As for what he said, we have many official and apocryphal gospels that seem to agree on certain things.

Jesus did Pilates?

The gospels are extremely unreliable. It's more reasonable to think that they are influenced by each other than the facts. They are extremely weak historical documents.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Elok
For crying...we're not getting anywhere because you talk and think like a philosopher, while I don't. I don't believe in your whole discipline, any more than you believe in my religion. It's useless to try and make me talk about external correlates and objective reality. I'm just a poor, naive empiricist or Humean or whatever (is "Humean" a typo of "human?" Y'know, as opposed to "android?"). Of course my conceptions are "tortured"; I'm not used to trying to fit all of human experience into your rigid boxes like different-sized shoes. I used to be good at pretending it made sense, but I've been out of school for a year now and out of practice. And now I'm out of patience.

P.S. Reread what I said about not claiming to "prove" anything.

So you admit you are irrational?

Game over.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Geronimo
To be fair...what makes philosophy any more valid or even useful than religion?

Because philosophy asks for reasons for believing in something. Similarly, scientists have reasons to believe in things. Neither asks you to take anything on faith.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Agathon


Because philosophy asks for reasons for believing in something. Similarly, scientists have reasons to believe in things. Neither asks you to take anything on faith.

As a philosopher do you believe you can objectively justify belief in anything?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Elok
Jesus. Now get back to work, your Revolution misses you and it has its work cut out for it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have an in-depth discussion of religion with a hardcore commie who knows nothing of the subject and doesn't want to, but I'm a methodical person, and I like to complete my "pointlessly masochistic dead-end conversations to have before I die" list in order. I still have to ask Ron Paul what he thinks of NATO and have that chat with PETA about USDA meat plant inspections.

I think Christians must be the most arrogant people in the world.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
And it doesn't seem to me unreasonable to think that there are superior entities we still don't comprehend governing the order of the universe.

Order?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Geronimo
To be fair...what makes philosophy any more valid or even useful than religion?

You actually may get somewhere when you question a philosophy.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Perfection
Why the philosophy hate, Elok?

It owns him.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Geronimo

As a philosopher do you believe you can objectively justify belief in anything?

Yeah.

Then again, I am a Davidsonian pragmatist, so I don't think it makes any sense to say that most of our beliefs are false.