China tells you, personally, to go #### off, calls your mother ugly

[Ben Kenobi]

The total emissions wouldn't change no matter how you divvy up China.

On the other hand, if per capita numbers are used, we would expect to see a variance in proportion to the size of the divisions. Smaller divisions would have higher deviations from the overall chinese average.

Thanks for highlighting the problem, Blake. That's another good reason to use total output, rather then per capita output.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Cuz that's where we can make a difference. If you'd listen to us about smart trade, we could cut off Chinese emissions at the balls, by simply refusing to import products that violate our standards, but noooo. That would violate free trade.

I guarantee that environmentalists attacking China would have as much influence as an atheist convention calling on George Bush to stop talking about God so much. In essence, you are calling for environmentalists to simply shut up so the rest of you can enjoy your drinks as the Titanic charges the nearest iceberg.

Shut up!

I'm trying to listen to the band.

[Reiko]

Lets face reality folks. As evil as China is they should be commended for laughing at the man-made global warming dimwits and HYPOCRITES.

[Vesayen]

Beg your pardon, how am I hypocritical for wanting the earth to be habitable in 200 years?

[Theben]

Just ignore him.

Anyway, China has implemented some steps to curb their fossil-fuel emissions. Mostly for show, with the Olympics coming up, but they have built a 'green' city, and that plus their other projects are more than the Bushies have done. We'll have to wait to see if a dem in the White House will change any of that.

[Vesayen]

You are seriously going to claim that China is greener then the U.S.?

Have you been to Bejing? The smog is so bad many people go around with surgical masks on.

[Theben]

Eh? Exactly where did I say that? I'm aware of just how bad many Chinese cities are (not just Beijing, there are factory towns far worse). However China is starting to address some environmental concerns, while the most we get from the U.S. administration is "pollution $$", aka the biggest enviro joke since Reagan's killer trees.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Yep, the Chinese government really is caught in a bind here. One of the main things keeping it in the public's graces is economic growth, and the party is reluctant to do anything that could jeopardize that.

Mind you, the government seems to be able to enforce fairly drastic changes when it has the political will to do so. Even societal norms like the old Chinese practice of having very large families was effectively curbed, with one child being the norm, and two or three seen as being "daringly unconventional" (compared to the nine children my grandparents had).

The question is whether the outside world can impress upon China the importance of pursuing and enforcing an environmentally sustainable industrial model. More and more Chinese people are sadly following the idea of buying cars instead of bicycling or riding public transport. This is part of the conception that to be as wealthy as the West, you have to emulate their habits, and cars are seen not just as status symbols (in Europe and Britain) but also as pretty damn near indispensable in the U.S.

There is some historical enmity over the fact that when the U.K. and U.S. were engaging in their Industrial Revolutions, there was no global watchdog environment group to comment on their pollution centuries ago. The perception of a West that does as it pleases and then criticizes other nations (particularly poorer ones) is, to my mind, unfair, but it finds ready soil when nations like America decline to participate in global instruments like Kyoto and other third parties like the U.N. That only leads to further misunderstandings.

As does the thread title, actually. Was that seriously the best you could think up of?