Who is your most detested philosopher ?

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


I know you don't understand what Christianity is.

JM

You are probably quite right when you say that, but I have the same probem with beliefs in any kind of god(s).

I know that many christians think that they morally are superior due to their belief but that really doesn't make sense - belivers in other faiths think the same. Some, if not all, must belive in something false.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Well JM, having both told me I'm miss-informed and refused to debate me I think your now obligated to at the least explain your position and inform me.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Well JM, having both told me I'm miss-informed and refused to debate me I think your now obligated to at the least explain your position and inform me.

So you want to continue with your statement that Christianity is based on the philosophy of Plato? While I agree that some Christian thought is, by no means all is. I think that your statement is so misinformed that the only solution is for you to actually read something about Christianity (instead of just reading some atheists thoughts about it).

JM

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Core to Christianity is:
Increasing Knowledge of God
Transformation of Self*

This doesn't make any sense - the concept of god in crhistianity is after all that he is incomprehensible,

What do you precicely mean with "Transformation of Self" ?

[Nostromo]

Improving yourself, becoming a better person, I assume

[Jon Miller]

Christ shows us the Father. You could say we begin to know God by being transformed.

And the transformation of the Christian is the central 'mystery' of Christianity. It is the accepting of Christ's grace and the transformation that occurs within us due to Him.

Many Christians miss this also.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Nostromo
Improving yourself, becoming a better person, I assume

Has nothing to do with improving yourself. That is Buddist way. In Christ we are a made new. We accept this change, we don't (or shouldn't) be changing ourselves.

JM

[Nostromo]

Ah, OK

[Jon Miller]

If you want to put it into a large box that includes all ways to become a better person... I wouldn't disagree

JM

[Bkeela]

Any of the philosophers whose work is so obtuse that it is beyond the layman to read.

I like my philosophers to have practical solutions to life's problems.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Original post by Jon Miller
So you want to continue with your statement that Christianity is based on the philosophy of Plato? While I agree that some Christian thought is, by no means all is. I think that your statement is so misinformed that the only solution is for you to actually read something about Christianity (instead of just reading some atheists thoughts about it).

How did you construe my original words

Plato's dualism of Forms and substance also provides a key underpinning of Christian theology

Into All Christianit theology being based on the philosophy of Plato? My wording is rather clearly conveying the notion that Plato is one of only many providers as I say "a" not "the". I don't even claim he is the most important, rather Egyptian mythology has that destinction. Plato's key contribution is the idea that the physical world is an imperfect shadow of a perfect devine world. Thats significantly different then the Egyptian mythos ware the underworld is largly identical to the real or the Bablyonian underworld which is a dystopia. I also think its one of the most poisones ideas ever created as its been used to make man give up hope for this material world and meekly accept every tyrany thats been heap upon him through the ages.

[Jon Miller]

But it doesn't provide a key underpinning of Christian theology. It is key to certain Christian theologies... but you are not very informed and continue to make broad false statements anyways.

JM

[Elok]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Oh sorry I missed the Counter-Enlightenment and the return of the Dark Ages, though with the way things are going now ya never know. Please do explain how my dislike of Plato, or perhapse its being an atheist, means my head is up my arse.

It's neither, actually. It's your subscribing to the delusional fantasy that religion is some sort of bogeyman that made everything bad until people discovered Reason, perhaps hidden in a cave somewhere, and that changed everything. In the 1700s, following a series of brutal religious wars that ravaged Europe, that idea was shortsighted but understandable. In the year 2007, after Robespierre, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, et cetera ad nauseum, such an opinion can only be attributed to stupidity or self-deception.

It's a very tempting delusion, as it allows you to not only feel good about your own supposed wisdom but to pretend that fundamental flaws in human nature can be somehow overcome via a change in opinion or public attitude. Hence its continuing popularity to this day despite obvious flaws. Kind of like the way people are still pushing ethanol as the answer to global warming despite its inadequacy: it offers a free escape to a painful problem, so some people take it and to hell with logic. But it's still stupid.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
But it doesn't provide a key underpinning of Christian theology. It is key to certain Christian theologies...

Aha! Now instead of continuing to bicker back and forth about whether Impaler is qualified to discuss this with you, you can simply list Christian theologies in which it isn't key, and when he can't come up with a satisfactory counterargument, you can say "lol pwnd" and end it

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Science without philosophy is blind, philosophy without science is lame.

Science works just fine blind then.