Musharraf arrests Bhutto

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Nevermind. You should have noted

Why? I quoted a post in the thread that appeared after your stupid LOL BUSH SAID SOMTHING STUPID! even though he didn't. Yet you still continued in that insipid vein without responding to it and you still haven't.

Oh, and you left this part off ...

It wasn't relevent.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Lorizael
So then, who can overthrow our government?

It was just a quick and dirty comparison to the US. But in Pakistan, this is all tempered by the fact that Musharraf HAS overthrown the government before, as head of the army.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Lorizael
So then, who can overthrow our government?

The President by Executive Order.

Reagan actually had prepared Executive Orders that would suspend the Constitution, Disband Congress and the Supreme Court, and nationalize civilian law enforcement. All under the guise of "emergency powers" should nuclear war put the U.S. in a situation where it was needed.

[Ramo]

Should he follow through on the Democratic call to invade the country?

He already has authorized covert ops against the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan. And there's nothing in principle wrong with that...

What he shouldn't do is say that the coup-within-a-coup doesn't affect the $10 billion annually we're giving to a Pakistani military that's crushing the (overwhelmingly secular) pro-democracy movement (as Bob Gates has said).

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui




[q=Dannubis]I heard on the new Bush saying something about a president not being able to be head of state and commander in chief of the army at the same time.

Now, excuse me if i am wrong but in the US, the commander in chief is by definition the president right ?[/q]

Musharraf is the head of state and the Army chief. The President of the US is commander in chief, meaning that there is civilian control of the Army, but he isn't the general on the top of the Army command structure. Basically it'd be like the Head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff being both that and President of the US at the same time (which I'm not sure is allowed under the military... though I could be wrong).

So in the end who is calling the shots then ?

BTW, I also know that the situation in the US is significantly different than the one in Pakistan where the army is actively interfering with the civil governement.

But as far as I know, what Bush critized is exactely the international standard, namely that the head of state is the commander in chief of the military.

It just stroke me as odd to be critizing that and not just plain saying that suppressing your people by using the army isn't exactely democratic, even if you are by definition granted the command of the army, being the head of state. Doesn't make sence.

[Kuciwalker]

But as far as I know, what Bush critized is exactely the international standard, namely that the head of state is the commander in chief of the military.

I'm pretty sure the Head of State of Pakistan is also the CiC of their military, but the problem is that Musharraf is also the highest-ranking military officer. He's not a civilian.

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Patroklos


For the same reason the JCS themselves can't do it, because the administrative and operational chains of command are seperate.

That partly answers my question above. Thanks

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by dannubis
But as far as I know, what Bush critized is exactely the international standard, namely that the head of state is the commander in chief of the military.

No.

Also, there is context here. Teh Pakistani Chief of Army Staff is a powerful position, and teh issue of whether Musharraf can keep both positions has been intensely debated in Pakistan for years. Teh Supreme Court ruled that he had to give up one position by a certain deadline, and part of teh deal with Bhutto also stipulated that. That is what Bush was referring to.

[dannubis]

I know

Still, I was just wondering about this.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

But as far as I know, what Bush critized is exactely the international standard, namely that the head of state is the commander in chief of the military.

I'm pretty sure the Head of State of Pakistan is also the CiC of their military, but the problem is that Musharraf is also the highest-ranking military officer. He's not a civilian.

Yep, that's put better than how I said it. Think of, during World War II, for instance, if you had one person in the US doing both Franklin Roosevelt's job and Dwight Eisenhower's job. That's kind of like what Musharraf is now as President and Army Chief of Staff.

[LordShiva]

[q=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7087868.stm] Bhutto house arrest order lifted
Pakistani opposition leader Benazir Bhutto has been released from house arrest in the capital, Islamabad.

The order was imposed early on Friday, blocking Ms Bhutto's attempt to lead a rally against the emergency rule declared by President Pervez Musharraf.

The United States had criticised the house arrest, saying that she must be "permitted freedom of movement".

Ms Bhutto has vowed to wage a campaign aimed at forcing Gen Musharraf to stand down as head of the army.

Democratic credentials

A three-day detention order was served on the former prime minister after she tried to cross the heavy police cordon set up outside her home on Friday.

Police had surrounded the house early in the morning with roadblocks and coils of barbed wire to prevent her from addressing a rally in the neighbouring city of Rawalpindi.

Under emergency rule announced last week, such public gatherings have been banned.

Officials said it was a temporary measure because of a fear of suicide bombers attacking the planned rally, and that it would be lifted by Saturday.

Last month a suicide bomber killed nearly 140 people at a mass gathering as Ms Bhutto returned home from exile.

Ms Bhutto made several attempts to leave her home but was turned back. She finally emerged to address the media through a megaphone from behind the barricades.

She repeated opposition demands that Gen Musharraf should lift the state of emergency, resign as army chief and hold elections by mid-January.

"We are calling for the revival of our constitution and respect for our judiciary," she said.

"We are calling for General Musharraf to keep his commitment and retire as chief of army staff on 15 November."

The BBC's Chris Morris in Islamabad says it has been a good day for Ms Bhutto, bolstering her democratic credentials at a time when other opposition parties still believe she plans to do a deal with Gen Musharraf.

Our correspondent says she is putting him under pressure at home while his Western allies are putting him under pressure abroad.

White House concern

Ms Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party (PPP) said 5,000 of its activists had been arrested since the weekend, and that police detained about 100 people outside her residence on Friday.

The United States, which has been the principal backer of Gen Musharraf in his fight against pro-Taleban militants, was quick to criticise the restrictions on Ms Bhutto.


HAVE YOUR SAY
The situation in Pakistan is deteriorating more than most people imagine
Omer Salim Khan, Lahore

"Former Prime Minister Bhutto and other political party members must be permitted freedom of movement and all protesters released," US National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.

"We remain concerned about the continued state of emergency and curtailment of basic freedoms, and urge Pakistan's authorities to quickly return to constitutional order and democratic norms." [/q]

[Japher]

I bet Tibet is jealous

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why? I quoted a post in the thread that appeared after your stupid LOL BUSH SAID SOMTHING STUPID! even though he didn't. Yet you still continued in that insipid vein without responding to it and you still haven't.

Oh, and you left this part off ...

It wasn't relevent.

That would be because I went to bed.

To the matter at hand:

"You can't be the President and the head of the military at the same time"

http://news.google.com/news?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&tab=wn&hl=en&q=%22You+can%27t+be+the+President+and+the+head+of+the+military+at+the+same+time%22&btnG=Search+News

854 news hits found in 0.23 seconds

Edit: Google has changed things since 10 hours ago, so just google everything between the quote marks instead of clicking the link.

Now, what was that about Bush NOT saying something stupid and me not being able to read?

[Patroklos]

Yep, that's put better than how I said it. Think of, during World War II, for instance, if you had one person in the US doing both Franklin Roosevelt's job and Dwight Eisenhower's job. That's kind of like what Musharraf is now as President and Army Chief of Staff.

Nah, Eisenhower's job was small potatoes next to the power Musharraf is currently hanging onto.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Japher
I bet Tibet is jealous

What?