The death penalty is barbaric

[SlowwHand]

Read up to the post before mine, idiot.
I'm only making an observation.

[Wezil]

We need a troll smilie.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Wezil
We need a troll smilie.

Like this?

[Kidlicious]

Good one Slowwy.

Oh, and I approve of calling trolls idiots.

[SlowwHand]

I'm going to brunch at the VFW.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Arrian
There is also the group that believes that using the DP would be acceptable if it weren't for the fallibility of our justice system. It follows that the chance of killing an innocent, even if the chance is low, outweights whatever utility the DP may have.

Exactly

David Milgard, convicted in 1970 of murder, cleared in 1997.

Steven Trustcott convicted in 1959 of murder. In 2007, the courts declared his conviction a miscarriage of justice.

Besides which the idea that the DP deters people is naive.

Anyone who has watched a typical murder trial will tell you that most murderers are idiots who are incapable of understanding the consequences of their actions.

[SlowwHand]

Again, lets get this straight. It's a penalty.
Jail terms don't deter crime. Do away with jails then?
Until you anti death penalty people can start to understand words, just don't say anything.
It's irritating to try and debate someone that can't understand the difference in meaning alone; never mind the deep philosophical mumbo jumbo where you try to go.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Again, lets get this straight. It's a penalty.

You favour the DP b/c of the "penalty" aspect alone. Many supporters of the DP argue is does deter crime. You are not one of them so he isn't really arguing with you.

[SlowwHand]

Oh. Ok.
Supporters that say it's to deter are feeble-minded.

[Wezil]

Personally I think it would deter crime if it were carried out quickly, and surely on a wide range of crimes. Unfortunately this just increases the liklihood of innocent people getting caught up in it.


edit: Did you just call me feeble minded? nm, I'm not a "supporter".

[SlowwHand]

DNA is of more use than just cloning sheep.
When we have that down pat, screw appeals.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Opponents usually take that stance that the death penalty is not a deterrent and indeed cheapens life so that murders are more likely to happen.

Has the existance of whole life sentences or indeed prisons in general led to an increase in the rate of kidnappings?

[Wezil]

The "life is cheap" argument presumes more factors than just the DP. It also encompasses culture, media, government.... Not saying I necessarily agree with the argument but you can't just take the DP part out of context.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Wezil


The problem being, the only system that is 100% foolproof would need to be so restrictive on evidence/qualifiers that the DP would clearly lose any deterence effect it may have (I realise dp as deterence is arguable in any event). So few would meet the criteria.

I have no problem with that. I think that the truly heinous criminals, like the John Wayne Gacys of the world, are simply undeterable. The consequences don't matter to them. The deterence argument is a red herring and irrelevant, IMO. Anyone who isn't deterred from their action by the possibility of lifetime imprisonment simply won't be deterred by the possibility of execution.

If we have a system where only the John Wayne Gacys of the world get executed, but they are executed within a year of conviction, then I'd think that we would have a great D.P. system. We'd rid ourselves of the clearly dangerous and guilty monsters without having to pay for them to live for fifty years (while non-criminals starve to death and go homeless) and without having to worry about them escaping or brutalizing other inmates.

[SlowwHand]

Walk them from the court, out the door, to the gallows there in the public square. Put it on PBS.