True defenders of freedom of speech told to shut up.

[germanos]

No! The Armenian massacre was surely not a genocide!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7038095.stm

Is the US going French? Or will they wave the white flag?

[Arrian]

I can't get worked up over this, for two reasons:

1. How the **** does the US Congress passing a bill declaring it genocide really matter? If it were ongoing and Bush was trying to get Congress to ignore it, it would make sense to be angry. Now? Come on. Lots and lots and lots of people far more respectable than US Congresscritters have weighed in on it.

2. Bush is correct that it will harm relations with Turkey.

-Arrian

[Riesstiu IV]

Harm relations with Turkey? Our relations with Turkey are already bad.

[Aeson]

Freedom fries!

God our government sucks ass.

[Wezil]

...and likely to get worse.

SIRNAK, Turkey - Turkish warplanes and helicopter gunships attacked suspected positions of Kurdish rebels near Iraq on Wednesday and police detained 20 Kurds with suspected rebel links at a border crossing.

The military offensive, which reportedly included shelling of guerrilla hideouts in northern Iraq, was a possible prelude to a cross-border operation that would likely raise tensions with United States, a key ally.

U.S. officials are already preoccupied with efforts to stabilize areas of Iraq outside the predominantly Kurdish northern region, and oppose Turkish intervention in that relatively peaceful area.

Turkey and the United States are NATO allies, but ties have also been tense over a U.S. congressional bill that would label as genocide the mass killings of Armenians by Turks around the time of the First World War.

Turkish troops were blocking rebel escape routes into Iraq while F-16 and F-14 warplanes and Cobra helicopters dropped bombs on possible hideouts, Dogan news agency reported.

The military also dispatched tanks to the region to support the operation against the rebel Kurdistan Workers' party, or PKK.


Dogan said the military had installed night vision cameras at strategic points to spot any rebels fleeing at night. The agency said there was fog Wednesday morning in the Gabar and Cudi regions of Sirnak province, near the Iraq border, forcing warplanes to fly low.

The military activity followed attacks by PKK rebels that had killed 15 soldiers since Sunday and prompted Turkey's government to push for a possible cross-border offensive against separatist bases in Iraq.

Turkey's Kurdish rebels have been fighting for autonomy in southeast Turkey since 1984 in a conflict that has claimed tens of thousands of lives.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told reporters that preparations for a parliamentary authorization for such a mission were under way, but did not say when the motion would reach Parliament.

The measure was unlikely to get to Parliament before the end of a four-day religious holiday on Sunday, an official of Erdogan's Justice and Development party said.

An opposition nationalist party called on the government on Wednesday to swiftly take the motion to Parliament and said it would back it.

If parliament approves, the military could choose to launch an operation immediately or wait to see if the United States and its allies, jolted by the Turkish action, decide to crack down on the rebels.

Authorities on Wednesday said they detained 20 Kurds, including eight women, at the Habur border gate with Iraq, the governor's office for Sirnak said. Two of the 20 were carrying false ID cards.

The office said the suspects had attended a PKK meeting and that those attending were told to prepare for violence against government offices.

State-run Anatolia news agency said the suspects - most of them university students - were detained as they entered Turkey. They were being questioned by prosecutors in Silopi, in Sirnak province, the agency said.

The rebels often cross back and forth from bases in Iraq, using remote, mountain passes that are difficult to monitor.

Hurriyet newspaper reported Wednesday that Turkish troops were pursuing a group of about 80 rebels on Mount Gabar, in Sirnak, and that escape routes were being bombed by helicopter gunships while transport helicopters were airlifting special commando units to strategic points.

Turkish troops were also shelling suspected PKK camps in the regions of Kanimasa, Nazdur and Sinath, in northern Iraq, from positions in Turkey's Hakkari province, Hurriyet said. Tanks were positioned near Silopi.

At least one artillery unit was seen positioned on the Turkish side of the border, across from the Iraqi Kurdish town of Zakho, with guns facing toward Iraq.

Turkey conducted two dozen large-scale incursions into Iraq between the late 1980s and 1997. The last such operation, in 1997, involved tens of thousands of troops and government-paid village guards.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2007/10/09/4562173-ap.html

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Arrian

1. How the **** does the US Congress passing a bill declaring it genocide really matter?

Some areas like parts of L.A. have large Armenian communities so politicians are lining up to pander to those voters. Also I remember reading that some insurance companies have continually refused to pay life insurance claims from that period saying the dead engaged in open rebellion and so the claim was not valid. An act of Congress would help family members sue the insurance companies in American courts so decedents can finally get paid the money owed.

That last bit ties in with the point about politicians pandering for potential votes.

[RGBVideo]

"True defenders of freedom of speech told to shut up"

Here was I presuming that this thread was about a Member of European Parliament getting thrown to street level, beaten up by cops and sent to jail for walking in a demonstration which the leadership of the European Comission does not approve.

Yeah, let's do another pointless and content-less circlejerk presuming that freedom of speech is in jeopardy in the US (omg Bush asked parliament members not to sign a bill ) in order to divert us from the new European reality which we're too afraid to speak about.

Below is a picture of the said parliament member before the cops threw him on the ground and started beating him. But hey, he's an opposition member so it's all fair and square, right?

[RGBVideo]

What's my point?

My point is that I'm tired of hypocritical, self-congratulating ostrichs from the heartlands of old Europe. By closing your eyes and pretending that unpleasant portions of reality don't exist, you'll deserve the theocratic police state you're slowly sliding towards.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Aeson
Freedom fries!

God our government sucks ass.

Yes, because instead of dealing with important issues of the day, they spend countless hours working on pointless non-binding resolutions designed to chase votes.

-Arrian

[CivGeneral]

We have too many issues to deal with on our plate as it is.

[LordShiva]

Someone is grabbing that dude's balls quite hard

[Straybow]

Turkey: Genocide free since 1918!

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by Straybow
Turkey: Genocide free since 1918!

Make that 1922

Turks sure love committing genocide against there neighbors. Come to think of it, is there any nation bordering Turkey that holds a positive attitude towards them?

[Wezil]

*bump* for the Greek

[Kontiki]

I have some turkey in my fridge. Maybe I should bring it to work and see if it does anything to my Armenian co-worker.