Big Victory for Bush administration

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wezil
I'm sure they would. As they would in most countries. It's easier to keep doing what we are doing. That doesn't make it the right thing to do (morally or otherwise), just the easiest.

You're preaching to the choir.

[Q Classic]

Seeing as you'd be trying to keep the 11th-largest economy in the world from collapsing under the weight of adding 50% of its population (~42 million, SKorea; ~22 million NKorea) that have been living under third-world Stalinist rule...

[Wezil]

Yeah well, we've been carrying Quebec for 100 years so why not.

[Wezil]

Seriously though Q Cubed, if SK is 11th that means there are 10 bigger (some considerably so) and of course the 12th, 13th, etc. I'm sure we could handle the strain of 22M if we wanted to.

Again, what would the cost be if Seoul gets flattened in a military strike 1o years from now? There is a cost to doing nothing.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wezil
Again, what would the cost be if Seoul gets flattened in a military strike 1o years from now? There is a cost to doing nothing.

And kill the cash cow?

[Q Classic]

If Seoul gets flattened in a military strike, the economic repercussions would echo throughout much of the world. NKorea, for all of its bluster, is not an irrational actor.

Regarding the 10 larger nations willing to help out, it's nice that you have some confidence in international organizations willing to organize a bailout, particularly because we saw that happen when Germany reunited, right?

Though, let's not forget that East Germany was at least developed and had regular supplies of food, electricity, water, heat, and so on, wasn't run by a dictator who is a shining model for the Burmese Junta (in all the bad ways)...

And right there, we're only considering the economic ramifications.

What of security? No doubt it'd be exceedingly difficult to bring order throughout the mountainous countryside before things started to be looted...

Social unrest? North Koreans that do manage to escape and make it to the South are treated with a mixed amount of disdain and pity, like that mongoloid cousin with ****ed-up chromosomes nobody likes talking about. That's going to be a joy to try an assimilate like that, particularly since the majority of them have no concept of what modern life is like in the Capitalist South.

No, quick reunification isn't the answer, but I agree, paying them off without much progress isn't much of one either. The ideal solution would be to have a long-term merger that was put forth by the Ministry of Reunification in the South Korean government, but we all know that the ideal solution will not happen...

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Arrian
It's an extortion racket. I understand Agathon's argument (that appeasement, disgusting as it may be, is actually the best plan), but respectfully disagree. I don't think it's nuts by any stretch, but I think it's the wrong choice (both choices suck in their own way, mind).

OK. How are you going to deal with North Korea then? If there is no engagement, then North Korea will simply behave more aggressively and there may well be some sort of conflict.

The main thing is that South Korea has clearly chosen the appeasement route ("Sunshine"). We, as their ally/backer, can either get with that program or back the hell off.

Leaving it to the Koreans is probably the best bet. It's really their business.

I would actually prefer the latter. Withdraw (many SK's don't want our troops there anymore anyway), and refuse to keep ponying up stuff so the Dear Leader will promise to stop being such a bad boy. SK can do as it will, though we will remain a friend & ally and respond accordingly should the proverbial **** ever really hit the fan.

The US will not leave Korea, even if reunification takes place. The US troops serve the US's purpose, not Koreas. I believe US officials have actually stated that they won't leave. Presumably, they think it would give China an advantage.

[Serb]

Re: Big Victory for Bush administration

Originally posted by Wiglaf

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7025930.stm

It is no surprise there is no thread on this here..no one at Apolyton wants to give credit to George Bush because all they do here is ***** and moan.

Well today because of him and his policies we no longer need to fear a nuclear North Korea.

I am so sick and tired of people discounting what Bush has done. Thanks to him Libya no longer is pursuing WMDs. No longer is North Korea a threat, something Clinton did not accomplish. No longer is Iraq developing weapons, and every month thousands of lunatic jihadists die in the country. Al Quaida (sp) was crippled thanks to the strikes in Afghanistan

GWB
Apolyton can go **** itself for being so god damn BLIND about successes like these. Try checking these facts and telling me that George Bush is not a great president.

GWB

[Serb]

Mission Accomplished!

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
If Seoul gets flattened in a military strike, the economic repercussions would echo throughout much of the world. NKorea, for all of its bluster, is not an irrational actor.

I don't have as much faith in the NK regime to remain rational.

Regarding the 10 larger nations willing to help out, it's nice that you have some confidence in international organizations willing to organize a bailout, particularly because we saw that happen when Germany reunited, right?

I've already stated previously we are unlikely to do anything so this point is rather moot. If we would act in a way that we know will cost us money I could only presume we would then pony up the cash. While arguably our actions brought about the German situation, it was certainly not planned at that time. Besides, less than 20 years on and they seem to be doing alright.

Though, let's not forget that East Germany was at least developed and had regular supplies of food, electricity, water, heat, and so on, wasn't run by a dictator who is a shining model for the Burmese Junta (in all the bad ways)...

Already addressed the German analogy. Not the same.

What of security? No doubt it'd be exceedingly difficult to bring order throughout the mountainous countryside before things started to be looted...

Looting what? They've eaten the trees in the countryside.

Social unrest? North Koreans that do manage to escape and make it to the South are treated with a mixed amount of disdain and pity, like that mongoloid cousin with ****ed-up chromosomes nobody likes talking about. That's going to be a joy to try an assimilate like that, particularly since the majority of them have no concept of what modern life is like in the Capitalist South.

Who said they have to move? Replacing their government would be a huge step towrd NK self-sufficiency.

No, quick reunification isn't the answer, but I agree, paying them off without much progress isn't much of one either. The ideal solution would be to have a long-term merger that was put forth by the Ministry of Reunification in the South Korean government, but we all know that the ideal solution will not happen...

I respect your opinion but at the end of the day we are both sitting here with "solutions" that won't happen.

[Berzerker]

Well today because of him and his policies we no longer need to fear a nuclear North Korea.

Pity the fool who started a thread praising Clinton for saving us from N Korea. If N Korea ever complies with any deal, it will be because China told them to comply.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
Yeah, like NK will actually follow through with this.

SEOUL, South Korea - North Korea appeared set Monday to miss a year-end deadline to disable a key nuclear reactor and declare all its nuclear programs, key components of its disarmament as agreed in an international accord.

The communist country promised to disable its main nuclear reactor at Yongbyon, north of Pyongyang, and give a full accounting of its nuclear programs by Dec. 31 in return for energy aid and political concessions.

The U.S., Japan and South Korea expressed disappointment, but they and other countries that negotiated the accord with the North have not indicated what, if any, sanctions Pyongyang would face over the delay.

The North shut down the plutonium-producing facility in July and disablement work is under way in cooperation with U.S. experts.

But diplomats, including South Korean Foreign Minister Song Min-soon, have said the North is likely to miss the year-end deadline for disablement because a key step - removing fuel rods from the reactor - could take several months.

The nuclear standoff began in late 2002 after the U.S. accused the North of seeking to secretly enrich uranium in violation of a 1994 disarmament deal.

In late 2003, the North began negotiations over its nuclear program with the U.S., China, Japan, Russia and South Korea in the so-called six-party talks, which eventually led to its disarmament commitments this year.

North Korea conducted its first nuclear test, an underground blast, in October 2006, adding urgency to the talks.

Expectations that the North would fail to deliver the promised statement on time have risen in recent weeks.

The country raised eyebrows last week when a North Korean official indicated it would slow its disablement work because it was dissatisfied over the delivery of aid to the North so far.

South Korea's Foreign Ministry expressed regret over the North's failure to meet the deadline and pressed the country to quickly deliver on its promise.

"Our government urges North Korea to faithfully declare all nuclear programs at an early date and complete disablement steps without delay," the ministry said in a statement.

In Washington, U.S. officials say they are disappointed about North Korea's delay.

"It is unfortunate that North Korea has not yet met its commitments by providing a complete and correct declaration of its nuclear programs and slowing down the process of disablement," the State Department said in a statement Sunday.

"We urge North Korea to deliver a complete and correct declaration of all its nuclear weapons programs and nuclear weapons and proliferation activities and complete the agreed disablement," the statement said.

In Tokyo, Japan said it was "unfortunate" that the North had not yet declared its nuclear programs, and urged the regime to do so immediately.

"North Korea must provide a complete and accurate declaration of all its nuclear programs at the earliest possible date, and make swift and solid progress in disabling its three nuclear facilities at Yongbyon," Japan's Foreign Ministry said in a statement Monday.

The reasons for the delay in declaring the nuclear programs appear related to the country's suspected uranium enrichment program and differences with Washington over how much plutonium it has produced.

Song, South Korea's top diplomat, said Thursday more consultation was required on the alleged uranium enrichment program, while a Japanese newspaper reported Pyongyang and Washington disagree on the plutonium issue.

The Tokyo Shimbun quoted unnamed U.S. and North Korean officials Thursday as saying the North has told the U.S. it has produced about 30 kilograms of the nuclear material, considerably less than U.S. estimates of more than 50 kilograms.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2007/12/21/4735378-cp.html

[DinoDoc]

Color me shocked.

[Wezil]

I knew you would be.

[Zkribbler]

When Brits speak proper English, they're said to be speaking "the Queen's English."

When we Yanks are speaking proper English, are we said to be speaking "George Bush's English?"