Big Victory for Bush administration

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Agathon


Come on man. There really isn't any alternative but to prop them up. Otherwise the regime will fall, and you'll get a million North Koreans schlepping their way across the DMZ to get to Seoul, which will cause a gigantic crisis in the South Korean economy and probably threaten its democracy.

And as long as they can keep that up, they will. There's no incentive for the DPRK to change, since their current strategy is successful in terms of the leadership's goals.

The ultimate questions are how long do you continue the buyoff? If you don't continue it for as long as the DPRK wants, then what is your next approach?

Hard to tell who will suceed Kimmypoo, but I won't bet my paycheck on the emergence of some reform-minded leader.

Part of the sunshine policy is the South trying to avoid the North collapsing, since it's better to pay out quite large sums as insurance against your society collapsing. People don't realize how selfish it is.

In another era, it was referred to as "appeasement."

[GePap]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


In another era, it was referred to as "appeasement."

When will the bad Munich references end? This must be one of the most of referrenced modern events, and most of the time, perniciously and without adding anything of merit...

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Kidicious

You prefer Cuban diplomacy? What are their options? They seem to do pretty well considering what they have to work with.

My point is that Fidel and company aren't nearly as isolated as North Korea is.

There really isn't any comparison between the two. Fidel doesn't have harems of white women for his personal sexual satisfaction, and Fidel hasn't made it the law that he should be regarded as a divine being, and AFAIK Fidel doesn't own a huge fleet of expensive foreign sports cars that he races on a private track.

North Korea was the northern part of a former isolationist medieval tyranny known as the Yi dynasty which was then swapped for a rather brutal Japanese occupation in which, among other indignities, Korean women were enslaved as prostitutes and Korean men were forced into slave labour. Korea was not exactly an open society before 1945, and the northern part has really never been.

If you cut off your population from almost all outside influences, and then terrorize your own diplomatic officials to tow the crazed party line, you can't really expect professional modern diplomacy. How are your diplomatics supposed to gain a realistic view of world affairs if they start from that?

Cuba has never been as isolated as North Korea has been.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


And as long as they can keep that up, they will. There's no incentive for the DPRK to change, since their current strategy is successful in terms of the leadership's goals.

The ultimate questions are how long do you continue the buyoff? If you don't continue it for as long as the DPRK wants, then what is your next approach?

There isn't one. There is no real alternative. North Korea can't really do anything unless they are absolutely desperate, and it makes good sense for the south to keep buying them off, as they can afford it, whereas they can't afford reunification, which would be forced on them by a northern collapse.

Hard to tell who will suceed Kimmypoo, but I won't bet my paycheck on the emergence of some reform-minded leader.

Probably not, but it doesn't really matter. The South would be happy with de-escalated tensions.

In another era, it was referred to as "appeasement."

Which is sometimes a rational policy, especially when you can't win even if you win.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


All we needs is several hundred thousand pissed-off Iranian soldiers pouring across the border into Iraq.

Actually... if we leave, then let them come pouring in... we could arm some sort of Sunni insurgents to fight them off, except intentionally this time!

What could possibly go wrong?

[Wezil]

I'd rather pay the high costs of reunification rather than continue to pay the extortion to support this regime. If it is a "pay now or pay later" I would choose now.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Wezil
I'd rather pay the high costs of reunification rather than continue to pay the extortion to support this regime. If it is a "pay now or pay later" I would choose now.

This just means you aren't human. Pay later is all we do.

[Wezil]

[Aeson]

People don't choose to pay now. It's a fact.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Wezil
I'd rather pay the high costs of reunification rather than continue to pay the extortion to support this regime. If it is a "pay now or pay later" I would choose now.

Don't you think it is up to the South Koreans to make that decision?

[Wezil]

Ah, now I'm with you.

Yeah, you are probably right. I just see no good of allowing this regime to continue working toward anything nasty. Time to pull the plug.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Agathon
We've now essentially gone back to the situation as it was when Bush called North Korea part of an "Axis of Evil", and this is somehow an incredible victory.

Well, at this point a restoration of pre-war Iraq would be an incredible victory.

You prefer Cuban diplomacy? What are their options? They seem to do pretty well considering what they have to work with.

The Cubans still have friends/sympathizers in Latin America like Chavez. Cuban foreign policy also does not consist entirely out of trying to extract concessions from Western powers.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Agathon


Don't you think it is up to the South Koreans to make that decision?

Sure let them defend against the north themself or accept that this is our plan. I'd have no problem helping them economically (and militarily if it came to that) with unification after the north's collapse. Appeasement just isn't on for me.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Wezil

Sure let them defend against the north themself or accept that this is our plan.

So you mean to deliberately close off all sane options. Are you working for the Bush administration?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Agathon


So you mean to deliberately close off all sane options. Are you working for the Bush administration?

"Sane" by your definition.

Continuing to allow the North Korean people to live in this kind of misery so that we don't have to deal with the uncomfortable aspects of the issue is quite frankly, disgusting.

And please don't link me with Bush or the nutters that continue to sing the man's praises. He's an idiot. I just happen to value personal freedom a whole lot more than you ever will based on your political beliefs.