Democratic aggressors seek to strip Florida of its right to vote

[snoopy369]

How about either side address the actual issue, of whether there is reason to use a non-state id verification mechanism?

[Darius871]

Originally posted by snoopy369
How about either side address the actual issue, of whether there is reason to use a non-state id verification mechanism?

The same reasons you mentioned in your earlier post:
1) It's too easy for a non-citizen to get a driver's license
2) It's too easy for a non-citizen to forge a driver's license
3) It's too easy for a perpetrator of electoral fraud to forge a driver's license

I've volunteered at a voting location before, and saw firsthand how swamped the administrators get from dawn to dusk. They don't exactly have the time or the inclination to pore over the details of every single ID card and confirm their validity. If they see an official-looking piece of plastic with your picture & name, and that name happens to appear on the registration list, they'll shuffle you along like cattle.

Voter fraud and non-citizen voting are so easy to do that frankly I'm surprised they aren't more common on both sides, especially considering how polarized the parties have become since 2000. Or perhaps they actually are more common than statistics would lead us to believe, and the perps almost always get away with it.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by rah
While I think a national primary would be better, it causes considerable hardship on the candidates. With it spread out they can spend more time campaigning and if they find out they have no chance half way through they can stop spending money.

You mean, kinda like in the election they want to contest.

Maybe by disenfranchising Florida we can have a sane Cuba policy and get rid of sugar tariffs.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Darius871


The same reasons you mentioned in your earlier post:
1) It's too easy for a non-citizen to get a driver's license
2) It's too easy for a non-citizen to forge a driver's license
3) It's too easy for a perpetrator of electoral fraud to forge a driver's license

How do you get on the voting registration list if you're not a citizen, though? Aren't they checking the same things (birth certificate or other proof of citizenship) at the DMV or whatnot as they are at the voting location, and presumably with more time and inclination to be careful?

If the DL/State ID is too easy to forge, then make it harder. I hardly think it's easier to forge a state ID than a birth certificate, anyway, which I could make a passable one on my computer in ten minutes - especially with the wide variety of possible formats, compared to 1 (or 2 if it's recently changed) for state IDs.

If it's too hard to differentiate between a state ID that is a citizen and one that's a non citizen, perhaps put it on the ID in a clear location? I can tell you that it's not hard to read them if you know where you're looking.

To me those reasons aren't enough to require a birth certificate, and to be honest that requirement only solves problem #1 anyway - which I don't buy as a real reason (since the voter registration lists should be the point at which non-citizens are prevented from being able to vote in the legitimate ID group).

[Darius871]

Originally posted by snoopy369
How do you get on the voting registration list if you're not a citizen, though? Aren't they checking the same things (birth certificate or other proof of citizenship) at the DMV or whatnot as they are at the voting location, and presumably with more time and inclination to be careful?

Originally posted by snoopy369
...only solves problem #1 anyway - which I don't buy as a real reason (since the voter registration lists should be the point at which non-citizens are prevented from being able to vote in the legitimate ID group).

If a birth certificate were already required for registration in the first place, then requiring one at the time of voting wouldn't be raising accusations of disenfranchisement now would it? People register using driver's licenses, utility bills, bank statements, pay stubs, non-ID federal documents, etc. etc. etc. all the time. You can even do it by mail. Then an overwhelmed, apathetic, and/or lazy bureaucrat processes it in a few minutes without much more than a passing glance.

Now if you're implying that a birth certificate should be used in initial registration so be it, but then you'll have to prove that you're not just conspiring to disenfranchise poor and minority voters who don't have birth certificates in-hand right this minute.

Originally posted by snoopy369
If the DL/State ID is too easy to forge, then make it harder.

Originally posted by snoopy369
If it's too hard to differentiate between a state ID that is a citizen and one that's a non citizen, perhaps put it on the ID in a clear location?

No argument here.

[GePap]

Originally posted by snoopy369
How about either side address the actual issue, of whether there is reason to use a non-state id verification mechanism?

I know that in Panama for example, every adults get an ID card from the electoral board when they are 18, a card that serves as proof of citizenship and therefore proof of eligibility to vote.

Its not mandatory to have a state issued identification in the US. Conservatives themselves have fought tooth and nail against some sort of centralized identification card at the national level. Why then make it madatory to have state issued ID to vote if its not necessary to do so at any other time? And if its necessary to vote, why not have a State ID system in which everyone is given one, as opposed to letting the DMV handle the system???

Basically conservatives don;t want a centralized ID system, but want to force everyone to have ID to vote, meaning its up to people to use their own time and resources to get an ID in order to excercise their most basic right of citizenship in the United States, voting.

They couldn't keep poll taxes, so this is their new approach.

[Arrian]

A centralized ID system would, I imagine, be funded by taxes. Thus conservatives would be paying for other people's ID cards. Even setting aside the "they want to disenfranchise the poor" argument, this also hits on "bigger gummint" and "I don't wanna pay for more **** I don't think we need," which are not exactly high on conservatives' most favored policy list...

I *would* prefer that we properly track who is who and try to cut down on fraud. But I think that if we're going to require such things, it's probably best that the gummint supply the ID. Properly, of course, unlike the current cluster**** with the passport office...

-Arrian

[rah]

I had to renew my passport a few years ago and since I had let it expire i had to produce a birth certificate.
20 minutes at the court house and a token fee less than 10 dollars. Good thing i'm not poor or i wouldn't have been able to do it.

All that aside, if you're on the voters roll, and have a valid id, that should be enough. What you have to do to get on the rolls is probably sufficient without unfairly tasking people.

Of course if you lived in an upscale neighborhood, they recogonize you and don't even ask for an ID
(i have lived in my district for over 15 years though)

[Darius871]

Originally posted by rah 20 minutes at the court house and a token fee less than 10 dollars. Good thing i'm not poor or i wouldn't have been able to do it.

But what if you had to take a bus there???

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Agathon


And yet you still believe in peaceful revolution!!

Sez who. I'm a commie and have been for almost 20 years.

[chequita guevara]

What if you don't live in the state where you are born?

[Darius871]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
What if you don't live in the state where you are born?

Dear Podunk County Registrar,

In order to comply with the new statute requiring that I verify citizenship prior to voting in the elections next fall, I will need a certified copy of my birth certificate. Please send the necessary application form in the enclosed self-addressed stamped envelope at your earliest convenience.

Many thanks,
Cletus Van Damme