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Just what is the "premium" these days for a Toyota over a Ford? They really aren't that different in price the days, at least here.
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"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. " -
You're being silly. You must be joking if you are denying that IE is dominating because it is bundled with Windows.Comment
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It is a factor, it is not the only one nor is it an example of why it is evil for consumers.
Because of Internet Explorer, internet browsers are free. Furthermore, there's ample competition out there. Furthermore, it permits people to download alternative browsers.
Where is the consumer harm? It's simply not there. You'll have us believe users using IE is harmful, which is ridiculous to say the least.
Similarly, there is no harm in Windows Media Player being bundled. There's MANY media players out there, and MS is hardly a dominant player in the digital media market despite the bundling of the player.
In both cases that "required" government intervention, there was no reason for intervention. Bundling IE is beneficial for the consumers, as is bundling Media Player. As is bundling a file navigator (Windows Explorer).
I suppose you're too much of a newb to computers to remember Norton Commander? OS' didn't always come with file browsers, that's an "extra" program that was bundled with the OS..."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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Bull****.Because of Internet Explorer, internet browsers are free.
It's a vulnerable browser, but more importantly, it's a browser that doesn't need to innovate anymore. Firefox came out with tabbed browsing. A few years (yes, years) later, Microsoft comes out with a new version of its browser that just rips of Mozilla (not terribly well but "decent enough"). And of course, everyone still uses IE, simply because they have it on their computer.Where is the consumer harm? It's simply not there. You'll have us believe users using IE is harmful, which is ridiculous to say the least.
There are indeed other players out there. They generally have many fewer users than iTunes or WMP, products that benefited because they came in a bundle, not on their own merits.Similarly, there is no harm in Windows Media Player being bundled. There's MANY media players out there, and MS is hardly a dominant player in the digital media market despite the bundling of the player.
Good that we don't need to do that anymore. Bad that every new PC owner needs to seek out media players and browsers on their own, since probably half of them don't know what to look for.I suppose you're too much of a newb to computers to remember Norton Commander? OS' didn't always come with file browsers, that's an "extra" program that was bundled with the OS...Comment
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IMO, Netscape gone really bad; after version 4.Originally posted by lord of the mark
i always liked Netscape better, myself.blehComment
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Why is it bull****? IE was free. Netscape was then made free. Before IE, the only real browser (Netscape) was something you had to pay for. Or do you not remember that far back?Originally posted by Wiglaf
Bull****.
I'm as big a firefox fanboy as anyone, but IE one-upped Firefox in several areas (like RSS feed reading). But anyway, your comments only serve to illustrate that innovation is alive and well and choices are abundant in the browser sector...bundling does not hurt this.Originally posted by Wiglaf
It's a vulnerable browser, but more importantly, it's a browser that doesn't need to innovate anymore. Firefox came out with tabbed browsing. A few years (yes, years) later, Microsoft comes out with a new version of its browser that just rips of Mozilla (not terribly well but "decent enough"). And of course, everyone still uses IE, simply because they have it on their computer.
Feel free to actually back this up with, you know, anything. Winamp is still extremely popular, for instance.Originally posted by Wiglaf There are indeed other players out there. They generally have many fewer users than iTunes or WMP, products that benefited because they came in a bundle, not on their own merits.
That's exactly why they come by default. Thanks Wiggy.Good that we don't need to do that anymore. Bad that every new PC owner needs to seek out media players and browsers on their own, since probably half of them don't know what to look for."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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About IE vs other browser:
There is a cost to have a new browser; the cost is:
- Downloading something and installing it (which is a fear that many people have)
- Trying something new (which is also another fear).
For many people; IE is doing a good job to access email, news, website, etc... and the cost to download a new browser doesn't worth the price.blehComment
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On a side note; many people seems to found that the benefit of having Firefox is superior than the cost;
blehComment
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July 2007:
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IE7: 20.1%
IE6: 36.9
Firefox: 34.5%
=========blehComment
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This does not prove that because of IE browsers are free. It only proves IE was the first free browser.Originally posted by Asher
Why is it bull****? IE was free. Netscape was then made free. Before IE, the only real browser (Netscape) was something you had to pay for. Or do you not remember that far back?
No, it serves to illustrate MS is two years or more behind innovation from an open source project.I'm as big a firefox fanboy as anyone, but IE one-upped Firefox in several areas (like RSS feed reading). But anyway, your comments only serve to illustrate that innovation is alive and well and choices are abundant in the browser sector...bundling does not hurt this.
WMP and iTunes are also popular, though not on their own merits. Winamp would probably love it if Microsoft and Apple stopped bundling music players because then they'd have a fairer playing field.Feel free to actually back this up with, you know, anything. Winamp is still extremely popular, for instance.
A better solution is to explain to people the choices they have when they fire up the OS the first time.That's exactly why they come by default. Thanks Wiggy.Comment
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What is that from? Firefox is at ~14% marketshare right now.Originally posted by CrONoS
July 2007:
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IE7: 20.1%
IE6: 36.9
Firefox: 34.5%
=========Comment
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Sooner or later there would have been a freeware/opensource browser even without IE.Comment
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You have been sufficiently pwn3d Wiggy, further replies are not necessary."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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Good to see you have matured in your time off
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you're rightOriginally posted by Wiglaf
What is that from? Firefox is at ~14% marketshare right now.
I didn't read where they got their stats;
Better look here; more stats with info on their stats;
blehComment
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