Pay Up, (Microsoft)

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Don't you think that is cutting off your nose despite your face?

Unfortunately I don't make policy, but yes.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ming
That's over the line as well... so get off your high horse.

DISCUSS THE TOPIC!

You say over the line, I would say over the top and that was the point.

And that is the topic. It's European persecution of foreign companies.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Asher

You say over the line, I would say over the top and that was the point.

And that is the topic. It's European persecution of foreign companies.

I have no problem with your opinion of European persecution of foreign companies... I did have a problem with your racist comments.

If you are going to sprout that kind of crap, expect crap in return, plus probably getting restricted.

If you are going to troll... do it with real discussion and facts, and leave the racist crap and other insults somewhere else.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ming
I have no problem with your opinion of European persecution of foreign companies... I did have a problem with your racist comments.

If you are going to sprout that kind of crap, expect crap in return, plus probably getting restricted.

If you are going to troll... do it with real discussion and facts, and leave the racist crap and other insults somewhere else.

It's nothing to do with races, and everything to do with European culture.

But I get it, I won't discuss it further.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Patroklos
What I really don't understand is why bust Mircosoft at all? The point of busting trusts is that they stifle innovation or deny ubgraded service by driving out competition. But has Microsoft done this? Who cares if they have a monopoly if they are still providing a top quality product?

If we were still running on Win95 I could see their point. As it is what do Europeans think they are missing out on?

I thought the key issue was not the OS market as such, but the effect of M$ dominance in the OS market on related markets - in this case the media player and server markets, as in the past it was on browser markets. Thats really a different discussion from OS features and stability, isnt it?

[SlowwHand]

Re: Pay Up *****, (Microsoft)

Originally posted by Patroklos


Link

So, looks like they are going to pay after all.

A serious question for Europeans (and Asher), what exactly are you guys whining about? What innovation or tool is unavailable to you because of Microsoft? We have the same products in the US and we are not trust busting them. Whats the beef? Is it just a pride thing?

Microsoft has stomped whole businesses out of existence.

[Asher]

Re: Re: Pay Up *****, (Microsoft)

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Microsoft has stomped whole businesses out of existence.

This happens with competition sometimes.

Can you point out, to me, a media company that went out of business due to WMP being bundled? That's what this comes down to.

Even with WMP being bundled, Apple has managed to dominate the digital media front. I think that fact alone squashes this whole case on its face, but the EU doesn't seem to think so.

There are certain basic features that operating systems must carry. A browser, a media player, a file explorer, a firewall...all of these used to only be available with subsequent commercial products. Would we really be better off like that?

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: Re: Pay Up *****, (Microsoft)

Originally posted by Asher

There are certain basic features that operating systems must carry. A browser, a media player, a file explorer, a firewall...all of these used to only be available with subsequent commercial products. Would we really be better off like that?

Media players are available free, for reasons I think we all understand.

We would be better off, I suppose (or at least I suppose this is the arguement) cause a bundled media player, if its an MS product bundled with an MS OS, tends to make it harder for other media players to survive.

And of course it doenst matter if other media player companies actually go bankrupt, but if they refrain from developing products they otherwise might have.

[Asher]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Pay Up *****, (Microsoft)

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Media players are available free, for reasons I think we all understand.

We would be better off, I suppose (or at least I suppose this is the arguement) cause a bundled media player, if its an MS product bundled with an MS OS, tends to make it harder for other media players to survive.

And of course it doenst matter if other media player companies actually go bankrupt, but if they refrain from developing products they otherwise might have.

Considering the plethora of media players available, free or otherwise, this argument does not fly in reality.

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by Patroklos


What does this have to do with unjustly and irrationally prosecuting a company for providing you with a quality product?

Vista isn't exactly a quality product. It's actually quite a disappointment from XP, for several reasons. Hardware compatibility and driver issues are the main ones.

Competition is good for components of the OS, eg browsers, though this isn't what this particular case is about. Firefox is a big improvement to IE that has been limited to what, 15% of online computers to IE's 80%? Wonder why that is.

[Wiglaf]

Even with WMP being bundled, Apple has managed to dominate the digital media front. I think that fact alone squashes this whole case on its face, but the EU doesn't seem to think so.

Apple is dominating digital media for a similar reason. You just complained recently that Apple locks all iPods with iTunes, saying that interfered with choice. I'm also pretty sure iPods come with iTunes install CDs, which most people then use, probably because they think the product requires it.

You said yourself iTunes sucks, but it has established itself with underhanded tactics. So all you've shown is that both MS and Apple are aggressive in bundling a good product (Vista, iPod) with a crap one (WMP, iTunes) so that both are successful.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Vista isn't exactly a quality product. It's actually quite a disappointment from XP, for several reasons. Hardware compatibility and driver issues are the main ones.

That has nothing to do with the quality of Vista, and everything to do with the quality of hardware vendors.

Competition is good for components of the OS, eg browsers, though this isn't what this particular case is about. Firefox is a big improvement to IE that has been limited to what, 15% of online computers to IE's 80%? Wonder why that is.

Because IE was way better than Netscape.

Firefox is gaining on Internet Explorer's marketshare now as well.

The better product wins. IE didn't kick Netscape's ass because of bundling, Netscape simply sucked ass and IE sucked less ass.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Apple is dominating digital media for a similar reason. You just complained recently that Apple locks all iPods with iTunes, saying that interfered with choice. I'm also pretty sure iPods come with iTunes install CDs, which most people then use, probably because they think the product requires it.

You said yourself iTunes sucks, but it has established itself with underhanded tactics. So all you've shown is that both MS and Apple are unethical in their bundling practices.

I don't think bundling is unethical. I think Apple SHOULD bundle iTunes with the iPods.

What's unethical is preventing people from using anything else.

[Hueij]

There are certain basic features that operating systems must carry. A browser, a media player, [...] , a firewall...

Huh?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Hueij

There are certain basic features that operating systems must carry. A browser, a media player, [...] , a firewall...

Huh?

What is confusing about a list of basic features for a computer?