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  • #76
    Originally posted by lord of the mark
    So the browser firms could just distribute free disks at the shops that sell computer parts. Kinda like all those AOL disks.
    That's a brilliant idea. Let's create more disposable discs rather than providing basic internet functionality with OSes.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Wiglaf
      The original argument is stupid. Saying we need IE so that people can access firefox and other better products misses the whole point. People don't have firefox because IE is passable and they don't know what they are doing. How is this a better outcome than everyone having firefox?
      Because if people need better, they get better. No one is stopping them at all. Even my grandparents know about Firefox. They choose not to use it. Same with my parents.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

      Comment

      • #78
        Originally posted by Asher

        That's a brilliant idea. Let's create more disposable discs rather than providing basic internet functionality with OSes.
        Im not suggesting that eliminating the browser from Windows by law is good public policy, and AFAIK its not seriously on the table in the US or the EU, despite Wiggy. Im merely disputing that it would be a huge deal - most folks DO buy PCs from vendors, and their are simple distribution methods for those who build their own.

        I note again, that the Euro settlement impact media players, not browsers, and its quite easy to use your bundled browser or another one you DL, to go ahead and DL other media players. I dont see the need for a bundled media player. Whether the bundling actually hurts anyone, I dont know, I havent read the paperwork involved in the EU case and the news stories have been too cursory.
        "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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        • #79
          Because if people need better, they get better. No one is stopping them at all. Even my grandparents know about Firefox. They choose not to use it. Same with my parents.
          IE is dominant because it comes with Windows. The fact that your grandfather knows about Firefox is of little use when most users do not.

          No product should be dominant because it comes along with Windows, because this stifles innovation and competition in the markets of those products.

          Comment

          • #80
            Originally posted by Wiglaf
            IE is dominant because it comes with Windows. The fact that your grandfather knows about Firefox is of little use when most users do not.

            No product should be dominant because it comes along with Windows, because this stifles innovation and competition in the markets of those products.
            Your whole argument relies on the fact that IE is dominant because it comes with Windows. IE came with Windows, Netscape came with most ISPs. IE won out because Netscape is garbage.

            Firefox came out, is genuinely better, and its marketshare is increasing.

            Your argument is not supported by the real world.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment

            • #81
              Originally posted by Asher

              Your whole argument relies on the fact that IE is dominant because it comes with Windows. IE came with Windows, Netscape came with most ISPs. IE won out because Netscape is garbage.

              Firefox came out, is genuinely better, and its marketshare is increasing.

              Your argument is not supported by the real world.
              i always liked Netscape better, myself.
              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

              Comment

              • #82
                Sleep well knowing that you are unique, LOTM.
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                Comment

                • #83
                  The marketshare is at 14% and Firefox has been out over 3 years. IE is over 80% (and mac users don't have an IE). It isn't hard to figure out that IE isn't just dominant because Netscape was bad.

                  Comment

                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Wiglaf
                    The marketshare is at 14% and Firefox has been out over 3 years. IE is over 80% (and mac users don't have an IE). It isn't hard to figure out that IE isn't just dominant because Netscape was bad.
                    What does Firefox's success have to do with Netscape being bad?

                    Netscape was terrible, IE was good.

                    IE is good, Firefox is better. It's harder to earn marketshare now than before because the status quo is better. This is regardless of what is bundled.
                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                    Comment

                    • #85
                      So, all things being equal, people don't choose the better product? That makes no sense whatsoever

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Wiglaf
                        So, all things being equal, people don't choose the better product? That makes no sense whatsoever
                        People drive Fords, and they are never the better product.

                        The world doesn't make sense, Wiglaf, it's time to embrace that.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment

                        • #87
                          I liked Netscape better as well. At least up until when they tried to make it into a suite.

                          (Bloatware is always bad. If I want a browser, I want a browser. Not a ****ing swiss army knife. Same goes for an OS...)

                          Comment

                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Asher

                            People drive Fords, and they are never the better product.

                            The world doesn't make sense, Wiglaf, it's time to embrace that.
                            last I checked, Fords are cheaper for the same size car than say, Toyotas. Some folks prefer to pay the premium for a better car, some dont. Im a NYC boy and am not going to do my own car repair, so to me its worth paying a premium for reliability.

                            IE and Firefox are both free however.
                            "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by lord of the mark
                              last I checked, Fords are cheaper for the same size car than say, Toyotas. Some folks prefer to pay the premium for a better car, some dont. Im a NYC boy and am not going to do my own car repair, so to me its worth paying a premium for reliability.
                              Maintenance is not free, nor are repairs.
                              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                              Comment

                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Asher

                                Maintenance is not free, nor are repairs.
                                er, that was my point.
                                "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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