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  • #61
    Originally posted by DinoDoc
    I thought a tax break was a government letting you keep more of your money rather than taking it.
    And a Tax break aimed at very specific jobs/industries isn't a subsidy?


    Man, you sound like a European.

    It's not the existance of the subsidy that's the problem; it's the hidden, unquantified nature that makes it bad.
    What's so hidden and unquantified about it?
    Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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    • #62
      Please read about China.

      Or industrial europe.

      The widespread use of coal is catastrophic. There is a reason we have (mostly) moved beyond it.

      JM
      Jon Miller-
      I AM.CANADIAN
      GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Lonestar
        And a Tax break aimed at very specific jobs/industries isn't a subsidy?
        It isn't free money though which is what Imran said.
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Lonestar
          What's so hidden and unquantified about it?
          Hidden because most people don't even know it exists (or realize that it exists), unquantified because it's practically impossible for us to determine the true dollar amount.

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          • #65
            I thought a tax break was a government letting you keep more of your money rather than taking it.


            That's the point. How is the government giving you your own money back a subsidy?

            That's like saying you get a parking subsidy when the metered rate goes down.
            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
            2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Ben Kenobi




              That's the point. How is the government giving you your own money back a subsidy?

              That's like saying you get a parking subsidy when the metered rate goes down.
              Because this is libertarian sematic bull****. It's not "your own money" if you would otherwise have to fork it over to the goverment.

              Of course, King of the Analogies that you are, got the analogy totally wrong. If the metered rate stays the same but you, and only you - and only in select circumstances (like only once, or for only one month, etc.), get a price reduction it IS a subsidy.
              "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
              "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
              "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Kontiki
                Because this is libertarian sematic bull****. It's not "your own money" if you would otherwise have to fork it over to the goverment.
                Why not? Does it cease being your money when you get robbed?
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                Comment

                • #68
                  If you think all taxes are theft, take up armed resistance against the government or something. I'm not going to get into a debate about it.
                  "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
                  "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
                  "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

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                  • #69
                    Because this is libertarian sematic bull****. It's not "your own money" if you would otherwise have to fork it over to the goverment.
                    I take it then you wouldn't mind if the government increased taxes because it's their money, and they are so generous as to let you have it.

                    Of course, King of the Analogies that you are, got the analogy totally wrong. If the metered rate stays the same but you, and only you - and only in select circumstances (like only once, or for only one month, etc.), get a price reduction it IS a subsidy.
                    What if everyone driving a porsche were exempt from the metered rate, but the metered rate remained the same for everyone else? Would they be subsidising Porsches?
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                    • #70
                      I thought the Constitution granted the government the power to tax. Maybe I'm wrong.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Zkribbler
                        I thought the Constitution granted the government the power to tax. Maybe I'm wrong.
                        Does that make my tax refund into free money?
                        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                          I suspect the vast majority of the air pollution that harms people comes from cars.

                          This written by someone who has evidently never lived near a coal plant or heavy industry. In the case of Los Angeles that might be substantially true. Almost anywhere else in the world, no.
                          (\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
                          (='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
                          (")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! © 1999, patent pending, ® and ™ (except that "Smurf" bit)

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Jon Miller
                            There is a reason we have (mostly) moved beyond it.
                            Hardly anybody has moved beyond coal.
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                              What if everyone driving a porsche were exempt from the metered rate, but the metered rate remained the same for everyone else? Would they be subsidising Porsches?
                              Um.. duh... of course it's a subsidy for Porsche owners. It makes the cost of owning a Porsche a bit less than it normally would have been if Porsche owners were treated the same as everyone else.
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by DanS


                                Hardly anybody has moved beyond coal.
                                We have greatly decreased our use of it though.

                                JM
                                Jon Miller-
                                I AM.CANADIAN
                                GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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