For the homosexuals:

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Agathon
No. It's just not something people say around here.

How about paying a toll?

I admit I sorta translated the expression from hebrew word for word.

A bit weird if you ask me, since pretty much all Israelis are immigrants, or the sons and daughters of immigrants.

I guess it's like in New Zealand, where the New Zealand Chinese (who have been here since the 1800s) complain about Asian immigration.

Yes it is very true.

Each new wave of immigration is disliked by those already in place.

It's like the really old immigrants from russia, dislike all the new russian immigrants, calling them drunkards and whores

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by MrFun



The OP was basically like a "slap" in the face for me. I was offended by it.

I believe then as far as EON is concerned it's "Mission Accomplished".

[Patroklos]

would you choose to remain a bigot or would you choose to become a liberal

What is the difference?

[Arrian]

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by MrFun



The OP was basically like a "slap" in the face for me. I was offended by it.

I thought you like the odd slap

[Mercator]

Originally posted by Patroklos
What is the difference?

I was referring to definition A:

http://www.answers.com/liberal&r=67

lib·er·al (lĭb'ər-əl, lĭb'rəl)
adj.

1. 
   
   1. 
      Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
   
   
   2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
   
   
   3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
   
   
   4. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


I believe then as far as EON is concerned it's "Mission Accomplished".

Per usual, MF fell into EoN's cunning trap!

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

How about paying a toll?

"Paying the price" would be the nearest equivalent expression

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Molly:

I can make a list too:

Can you do joined up handwriting and wipe your own bottom too ?

If so, full marks.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Dude, of course it is somewhat offending.

So is being addressed as 'dude'. This isn't a ranch and I'm not wearing cowboy gear or living in the 70s.

And yet, it is not that bad a question.

Not only is it a 'bad' question in terms of framing, but it is also bad from its 'intent'- as I perceived it, not only from the poster's original framing, but having read previous posts of his (on Muslims, on people with H.I.V. and A.I.D.S.) and follow up posts of his with the same theme in a different thread.

He repeatedly confuses and conflates what is natural, that is originating solely in nature or from natural causes, with what is manufactured and artificial- the 'norms' set by societies and cultures.

Lots of Jews decided to change their faith in the 18th and until the early 20th century, choosing freedom over being ostracized.

Did they change their genes ? No.

These days, I pay almost no fine for being Jewish. I do pay a small fine for being an immigrant, and I might have chose to be born Israeli, even though I am proud of being a russian immigrant.

Is it illegal in Israel to be Jewish ? Will you be killed by fellow Jews for being Jewish or exhibiting what they perceive to be overt Jewishness ?


Will you face discrimination in employment, housing, education, inheritance rights, powers of attorney from Jews for being Jewish ?

With gays the question is more complex, because gays are not really able to choose.

We can choose to be dishonest with ourselves, our families, our fellow pupils, our neighbours, our friends and our employers and employees.

It is not a price worth paying.

Religion is very slightly similar since you don't usually choose it, but are 'brought up' into it.

Religion is a choice, but it is an artificial construct.

You can choose to wear brown contact lenses, but it won't make your blue eyes change their colour.

the thread's question would be useless and boring.

I'm not quite sure why all or any of Poly's gay or lesbian posters need to be offended for yoru edification or entertainment.

If I started up a thread that said 'Hey K!kes- why not be gentiles ?' I'd expect:

a) to be banned

b) to be pilloried by any Jewish poster or any Poly poster with good sense.

a good chance for you to explain yourself.

I have yet to see the thread which asks heterosexuals to 'explain themselves'. It is incredibly patronising to be viewed just as one's sexuality or as an example of psycho-pathology.

I feel no desire to 'explain' my citizenship, my hair colouring or my height.

You're going all aggressive again.

I was born that way- I'm of Irish descent and 5 foot 6. That's a recipe for conflict.

You should really learn to listen instead of being agressive.
You can make your point without it being annoying to the other side.

Enough with the learned rabbi schtick.

If you think that's me being aggressive you must have been brought up by Quakers.

If you don't want to be treated what you mistakenly perceive to be 'roughly', then don't say things like this for openers:

molly, as all-knowing as you appear/pretend to be

Who's insulting whom ?

your posts are atrocious to read because of:

Because of poor formatting! Boo hoo.

The Rennie Mackintosh font in purple and gold slipped my mind, as did the Jugendstil border and decorative putti.

What did you want- boustrophedon and bullet points ?

I'm being frank.

Fabulous! I'm molly, let's have falafels.

Your style bothers me.

Wunderbar!

I ask you to change

I'll fit that in next blue moon, which will be occurring on the Twelfth Of Never.

If you wish to ignore this, please do.

But I don't really know if you're all knowing or just pretending

Agathon's joke about Joe 90 notwithstanding, I've never claimed or pretended to be all-knowing. I'm just lucky to have a compendious memory and a wide range of interests.

The comment was a cheapshot

And you stated that:

You're going all aggressive again.

getting my quotes a little out of sequence. Sly, that.

which is that you often express your ideas in an extremely condescending attitude.

Sez you, who, according to himself:

share little of your interests, and lack the ability to judge what you post against any other information.

So why should I value your opinion more highly than anyone else's, or indeed my own ?

However gays are not as weak and oppressed as they were. You're in the workplace, and in the media, with tons of celebrities, movie and music stars coming out.

Hurrah! And we all know how wonderfully well assimilation turned out for the Jews of Europe too.

No amount of David Geffens or Elton Johns will stop families disowning their own children because of their bigotry.

I am also under the impression that the UK has openly gay politicians.

Yes, and it has homophobic and bigoted church leaders, mullahs and politicians too. There may be some kind of five for one offer on, I'm not sure...

True, some countries hate gay people.

No, some legislatures, politicians and religious organisations have worked to make homsexuality illegal and propagandize vigorously against gays and lesbians, and even in more enlightened countries work to curtail the civil rights of lebsians and gay men.

Even just plain folks do it too.

I fail to see where your defensiveness comes from.

Oh lord. Does Israel routinely carry scare stories in its newspapers about having to be on the lookout for Jews snatching gentile children for blood for making matzos ?

No, that would be in the Muslim media. For all your comments on how fabulous it is to have all these movie stars and musicians coming out, that doesn't prevent mainstream media exploiting stories about lesbians and gay men based purely on prejudice and stereotyping.

Only relatively recently have well-known figures dared to admit what has been obvious to a few, and even now there are an awful lot of locked closets.

But being overly defensive about it is also annoying.

Too bad.

Being asked about my sexuality as if that was either the most important part of me or the most relevant, is a tad irritating, as are the erroneous assumptions behind the original question.

Consider that I've been dealing with that sort of misconception and prejudice since my teens and I'm now 44, and that Poly is one of the places where one can usually avoid such idiocy, and I think I have a right to be somewhat aggrieved.

Sort of like lots of people hate it when Jews get defensive about religion / politics / history, and use the anti-semite card.

Is it Jews who mostly get annoyed at the defensiveness, or non-Jews ?

So what's so wrong with being called defective?

The basic assumption, sans evidence, that my sexuality is a natural 'defect'.

Can't handle being compared to a person with 6 fingers?

Who did you have in mind, Anne Boleyn ?

And seriously, there is as much validity to this question as there is to "whether you rather be born blond?".

You're being absurd. People aren't murdered because they were born blond, or have their funerals picketed because of their blondness, or are estranged from their families because of their hair colour.

It is exactly this tension that makes it interesting.

Chinese curse: may you live in interesting times.

I've had enough of prurient interest in my sex life and sexuality and ignorant prejudice because of it. I'll settle for relaxation any day.

trying to prove you're more knowledgeable or pretend you're on a moral high-ground.

That's a lovely opinion you have there. With £3.50 you can buy a cappuccino.

Stop lecturing people

Physician, heal thyself.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Majority Muslim countries without imprisonment or the death penalty = 1

I wouldn't trust your list.

Ceylon, or Sri Lanka as it's known to most humans these days, has been famous for its Buddhism since antiquity.

It does have a Muslim population, but it's not as numerous as the Buddhist one.

Why aren't you excoriating the Muslims for their unform hostility towards homosexuality?

Erm, it's not in my job description ?


Are Muslims your 'thing' now ? They must be quaking.

[LordShiva]

What was Ben's point with those three posts of his?

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by LordShiva
What was Ben's point with those three posts of his?

To show that albeit Christians may be morons, Muslims are bigger morons.

[Agathon]

No amount of David Geffens or Elton Johns will stop families disowning their own children because of their bigotry.

No offence Molly, but those are bad examples.

Any decent person who had a kid like David Geffen or Elton John or any other musical criminal should and would disown them.

[Ming]

Again... a simple reminder... discuss the topic and not the posters...

Thank you