Will you be dumb enough to buy Beyond The Sword?

[EyesOfNight]

I'll buy it.

There is always hope, I guess.

Hope is for those who feel there is nothing else.

From what I've read, they are going to nerf combat more.

They are making the requirements for cav and grens more... and creating more counter units... they are trying to nerf all the mid game rushes.

Wow, awesome. Lets make the game even harder to win at so people don't die. Seriously, if you die in Civ4 you just plain suck. As long as you aren't a drooling idiot you'll survive and at least lose on score. Just nerfing slavery will end any possible rush. Adding in a nerf to other aspects...oh my god. End of the Civilization franchise.

[Ming]

Yeah... they nerfed the tree cutting for warlords, and now realize that slavery is too strong, so let's nerf that as well... sigh...

[Jaguar]

Re: Re: Re: Will you be dumb enough to buy Beyond The Sword?

Originally posted by Ming


He actually believes what he says. As an MP player, he does raise some valid points. And I have no intention of moving this thread. I'm interested in seeing what some of the people that never go to the on topic forums have to say about the game.

OK, here you go Ming, although I think you've probably learned by now that these threads rarely turn out that way.

Civ4 is my favorite game of all time.

I think the maintenance system is the best idea they've had in the entire series for slowing down large empires. It adds strategic depth; you can grow big and lead in production, but it will cost you in GNP until those cities can pay for themselves. I think that's even a pretty realistic mechanism. It's historically been pretty hard to control large areas.

I also appreciate all the little things that they did to reduce the more annoying aspects of the game. The current health system is far better than pollution cleanup detail from previous games. The current happiness system is much better than the all-or-nothing civil disorder system. The "rollover" on food and production in cities is also nice.

Then they pretty much fixed all the really broken stuff from Civ3, like Culture, corruption (which came back as the infinitely better maintenance system) and Great People (which was expanded nicely.)

I'm not the sort of person who cares about which civs are in, or what new features get added, or anything like that. I just like things that improve the more basic mechanics and make the game more playable.

Civ4 is also spectacularly well-moddable, and I think Rhye's mod for Civ4 is an all-time great civ mod. I'd buy BtS to support his work alone.

I'm not the sort of person who would defend the Civ series no matter what. I'd give Eyes more sympathy if it were four years ago and he was complaining about Civ3. But I'm buying BtS the opening day, because right now I really like where the series is headed.

[OzzyKP]

Re: Re: Re: Will you be dumb enough to buy Beyond The Sword?

Originally posted by Ming


He actually believes what he says. As an MP player, he does raise some valid points. And I have no intention of moving this thread. I'm interested in seeing what some of the people that never go to the on topic forums have to say about the game.

You said earlier in the Civ4-MP forum that you wanted to ramp up MP discussion in advance of the BTS release.

Wouldn't it make sense then to move these EoN threads there?

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Ming
Yeah... they nerfed the tree cutting for warlords, and now realize that slavery is too strong, so let's nerf that as well... sigh...

Heaven forbid they try to fix unbalanced elements of the game.

[Ming]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Will you be dumb enough to buy Beyond The Sword?

Originally posted by OzzyKP


You said earlier in the Civ4-MP forum that you wanted to ramp up MP discussion in advance of the BTS release.

Wouldn't it make sense then to move these EoN threads there?

Maybe... but maybe it will also stimulate some of the people who don't go to the On Topic forums anymore to actually check them out. I see this as reaching a bigger audience... and maybe a chance to convert some people back to being on topic posters.

[Jaguar]

QFT Ozzy

[Guynemer]

I've already pre-ordered it, and am quite looking forward to it.

[SpencerH]

Poll doesnt apply. I was never a fan of the new combat system so I didnt buy warlords but I have preordered BTS.

[EyesOfNight]

I think the maintenance system is the best idea they've had in the entire series for slowing down large empires. It adds strategic depth; you can grow big and lead in production, but it will cost you in GNP until those cities can pay for themselves. I think that's even a pretty realistic mechanism. It's historically been pretty hard to control large areas.

Realism is not what makes games good, it's called gameplay. The maintinence system kills any chance for a player to get ahead. It's WAY too overbearing, and it's this way with the AI in mind. The way they make the AI harder is to handicap the human player and not the AI. Deity in Civ2 was like this as well which is why it was not a good MP setting. The maintinence system is a good example of SP taking precedence over MP.

I also appreciate all the little things that they did to reduce the more annoying aspects of the game. The current health system is far better than pollution cleanup detail from previous games. The current happiness system is much better than the all-or-nothing civil disorder system. The "rollover" on food and production in cities is also nice.

I have to agree, I ****ing hated pollution clean up. The health system is a really good idea.

Then they pretty much fixed all the really broken stuff from Civ3, like Culture, corruption (which came back as the infinitely better maintenance system) and Great People (which was expanded nicely.)

Civ 3 was only "broken" because yet again, they tried really hard to handicap the human player. All they did was take the handicaps from Civ2 and make them much worse. The fact is they have never been able to create a good AI and so they make up for this with massive restrictions on the human player.

There were some decent ideas in CIv4, but as I said in another thread, these ideas weren't taken far enough. The game looks incomplete and you combine that with incompetence on the part of the game designers and programmers (Seriously, Civ4 has the worst interface ever created) and you see why Civ4 turned out the way it did.

[Ninot]

If this were the type of discussion happening On-Topic, i'd frequent it much more.

[SpencerH]

Cant have it there we scare away the kiddies.

[Ming]

Originally posted by SpencerH
Cant have it there we scare away the kiddies.

You are probably right. People would come to the defense of the game by calling him and idiot... and not actually discussing the topic. I think we might be able to have a more open discussion here

[DrSpike]

I think we'll have both.

[PLATO]

Okay...Enough! I must go play Civ now.

Damn...This happens everytime I start reading about Civ here.