Xenos Christian Fellowship?

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
If God hasn't impressed on them that it is a sin, how are they unrepentant?

Paul's example in 1 Cor 5 doesn't depend on that. They were in sin, period. They clearly acted as though their relationship were normal and perhaps they "thought" everything was OK. They were instructed otherwise but remained unrepentant. In 2 Cor we see that the man returns to the church, repentant. No word on the woman.

If there is a topic where sin is not so clearly defined you might have a point... but then you could also slip down the muddy slope to relativism.

[Krill]

Does not the tale of Sodom and Gomorra also state that incest is acceptable, as the daughters of Sodom (Or Gomorra, I never remember which is male) as get their father drunk and then rape him

[Elok]

It's the daughters of Lot, and that story isn't usually taken as an illustration of proper behavior.

Also, on further reflection Xenos sounds a lot like Xenu. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes, they're a cult.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by snoopy369
The only part i'd be particularly concerned about is "forfeit everything to the church". That screams cult. Monastic groups expect you to forfeit everything to someone, but not to the organization (ie, groups that value a life of poverty); giving everything to the church tells me they're trying to make a buck...

That is what the early Christians did. They pooled resources and lived communially. "the church" properly understood is the people in the church, not just the church leadership.

If they did that it would certainly be way out there by modern standards, but totally in keeping with the roots of our faith. Now if they give everything to the leadership of the church... then its a scam.

But yea, Xeno - Xenu? Are people sure this isn't a branch of Scientology?

[phoenixcager]

I agree with what OzzyKP said about the early church. It's what's recorded in Acts 2 anyway.

I doubt that it would be "giving everything to the leadership", since on the "strange things about Xenos" page, it says that Elders (including the Senior Pastors) are limited to an income of $80k a year, also read that they have a system for planning their annual budget that seems much more thorough and transparent than many mainstream churches I know.

[sojourner08]

It is very disappointing to read the judgements that people pass through suspicion and lack of information. I am a member of Xenos and live in a ministry house. I do respect the individuals who have made an attempt to visit the church website rather than passing judgement blindly. I pray for any christians here who have slandered Xenos Christian Fellowship without adequate information. First off, I would like to express that as a member of the church and a ministry house, I and other members are certainly in no way required to "forfeit everything to the church." Church leadership has had no bearing on my decision in my college major, and the message given in teachings certainly does not advocate blind acceptance.

Originally posted by Japher
Check out "Real Life", their college ministry. It seems that the kids are recruited to live in the 'ministry house' and share in communal chores. Somewhat of a support group, a la a fraternity/sorority, but the rules seem very very strict for a religious based support group. They frown upon and even kick people out for sins. IMO, that is not what a good church should do. They should forgive the sins and help them to change for the better, not remove them.

In response to this, Japher, we are certainly not "recruited" to live in ministry houses in any blind or forceful sense of the term. Living in a ministry house is beneficial for fellowship and building close relationships with brothers (or sisters) in Christ. Certainly this can be accomplished outside of a ministry house, as I'm sure it does in other christian communities, but the point is that a ministry house is truly conducive and beneficial in this area. There are many other benefits, which I will not delve into right now but would be happy to discuss with anyone. In addition, noone is purposefully coerced in any devious manner or influenced by a deceivingly charismatic person to make the choice to live in a ministry house. The decision to do so is one that is ideally made with prayer and communication with the Lord holding most importance. I say "ideally" because the motives of any one individual cannot be controlled by others. Heartfelt prayer in making the decision to live in a ministry house is certainly greatly encouraged to take precedence, but this cannot be forced on any person.

As far as "communal chores" go, it is nothing more than what would be expected in a close group in a secular household. What is my "communal chore"? Taking out the trash from the kitchen. I had the same responsibility with my non-Christian roommates before I accepted Christ. It's very disappointing to read your judgement that we have "very very strict rules." What is your basis for this assumption? The Lord is the judge of all of us and He is the provider of grace. We are not called to judge one another. I and all of my roommates fall short and sin, as all people in this world do. I greatly thank Straybow for his following comment:

Originally posted by Straybow
[Q] [SIZE=1]Except Paul told the Corinthians that the unrepentant sinner must be kicked out, until they repent. You make rules in an environment like that to teach discipline, and most college kids sorely need it.

This is the critical basis of how a ministry house is run and is firmly well-grounded in biblical truth. It is true that if a member of a ministry house engages in repeated, unrepentant severe sin over a considerable span of time, then that person is rebuked and cannot be a part of the ministry house until they have brought their issues before the Lord and are willing to make steps of responding to the Lord's will for sanctification in that area. Severe sin is certainly no definitive term, but only the term I am using to describe sin that is characterized by an active and long-term repeated denial of God's will to work in one's life and a refusal to give our issues to Him. An example of this would be a friend of mine who became involved with a girl sexually, lied to all of his friends about what was going on with this girl, and did not give the issue up to the Lord. This was a pattern that he followed for many weeks. After multiple attempts made by the guys in his house to help him bring the issue to light and let God work in the situation and his continued refusal to do so, it was clear that ministry house life was not for him right now. He is certainly welcomed back with love if only he chooses to let the Lord work in his life here. I, on the other hand, had a large psychological dependency on pot before I became a Christian, and this dependency was not fully overcome before I moved into my ministry house. I smoked a few times after I moved in, using a drug to handle my problems rather than giving things up to the Lord, but the difference here was that I lived in the light with my roommates and asked God to help me depend on Him rather than a substance for comfort. I was treated with love, not condemnation from my roommates. I do not tell this story in any way to glorify myself, only to provide an example of the fact that living in the light and depending on the Lord are essential to a healthy interaction in a ministry house.

In response to why our church clearly defines "why we are not a cult," on our webpage, there is a simple answer. The organization of our church is well-grounded in scripture. There is a biblical backing of the way things in Xenos are done. Despite this, our church is not conventional compared to the norm of christian American society today. People naturally turn a skeptical eye to anything that is against the norm. "They do not have a large Sunday group service?" "They meet in their homes??" These questions will oftentimes lead people who are not well-versed in the New Testament to associate it with the most readily-available anti-norm institution they have with which to compare - a "cult." Upon reading Paul's letters in the New Testament, though, it is clear that he heavily relied upon home groups as the norm for a christian community in places that he fostered christianity.

Originally posted by Japher
If they are to 'go with the flow' why do they encourage college kids to check in to one of their Minsitry Houses? Wouldn't you want them to be emersed in society instead of emersed in the church? Fishing for men?

Japher, almost all ministry houses are in campus area. My house is three blocks off OSU campus. We are certainly not secluded from society. I hang out with my non-Christian friends all the time. Fellowship is one of the main staples of a healthy christian body-life. The ministry house simply provides a great grounding in fellowship off of which to base a solid ministry to the community. I currently have many friends I am trying to actively initiate with on a dedicated, regular basis. I am relying on God's timing and their willingness to listen to engage in spiritual conversations and give them the gospel. Yet again, this is no reflection of pride on my part, rather it is a clear indication of how God can work through one if his certainly fallible sons. We strive to be fishers of men, Japher. Some may fail. Many walk away from the church, because the Lord calls us to not put our own comfort before his calling. This does not mean we should all pursue a life of poverty or low income. I would finally like to reiterate that we are not asked by any leadership or fellowship to "forfeit everything to the church." I am not obligated to give financially to the church just because I live in a ministry house. I am not obligated to go to every meeting. I am not told what to think, nor am I told to be unquestioningly accepting. I am a free-thinking individual who has made his own decision to follow Christ, and through prayer and petition felt that living in a ministry house was the best choice for my walk with the Lord. I am certainly no expert on dispelling myths about Xenos. This is in fact the first time I have vocalized this in a public venue. Japher, I think your concern about your friend is loving and I do not think ill of you. I only pray that God has used me to shed some light on the misconceptions about his community here. If anyone would like to talk further, I would be glad to.

God bless you.

[Provost Harrison]

[trev]

I have taken the time to read through the information on the Xenos website and find that there is no information there that I can disagree with and instead can only recommend it as a very good church, which although different has a good teaching and discipling and leadership training programs. The strong emphasis on training the lay leadership of the church from within is certainly the correct emphasis and also the strong emphasis on reaching out to the unsaved.

[Provost Harrison]

What if we don't want to be 'saved'? You lot are always going on about how your views should be respected. Well practice what you preach!

[ZEE]

.

[Ben Kenobi]

Sojourner:

Thanks for the comments. I am pleased to see that they don't require attendence to their meetings, nor do they require that one give up one's friends and family. I had a landlord once who had left scientology, he still had some of his stuff left over from when he was with them. The big thing for them is that they would get you on a diet that would make you rather suceptible to their influence, as well as many other things.

[Japher]

sojourner08: Thanks for taking the time to reply.

It is very disappointing to read the judgements that people pass through suspicion and lack of information

I really don't think we were doing this. This thread was begun in order to dispel the concerns and investigate the organization. No ignorant judgment was being passed, only the facts being interpreted. Your comments help to discern that the actions and behavior of my friend is more a result of normal growing pains and post-teenage angst (“what am I going to do with my life”) rather then their involvement with this particular church.

This does not mean we should all pursue a life of poverty or low income.

This was more a concern of his mom more than of mine. I pray constantly for the Lord to fan the flames of the gifts that God gave me. My concern was that my friend was more concerned with being 'humble' than with being truly guided by God and the talents that was bestowed upon them. Again, your post assures me that what they are taking away from the church is not what is being supported by the church. His parents are Catholic, and he was too until he went to school. This caused another rift between his parents and him, which is why his mom came to us.

Japher, I think your concern about your friend is loving and I do not think ill of you. I only pray that God has used me to shed some light on the misconceptions about his community here. If anyone would like to talk further, I would be glad to.

Thank you. may goof around on this board a lot, but we do take plenty of things seriously and hope that this board educates as well as entertains. I haven't been posting here for as long as I have because I just like to spam, troll, or make wild accusations. I get a lot of support and guidance from anonymous strangers I have learned to call friends.

I am certainly no expert on dispelling myths about Xenos.

Nor should you be. I am sympathetic to your organization as the church I attend recently broke off from the Vineyard movement which has faced much scrutiny throughout the years, and is in no way conventional. We removed ourselves from the Vineyard, which is awesome IMO, because of financial issues. Also, last Sunday I did speak with an associate pastor at my church that I am friends with and he had nothing but good things to say about Xenos. Unconventional people like us need unconventional places to worship, we should be understanding in the fact because we are unconventional that we will need to explain ourselves from time to time.

Again, thanks for your reply.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Sojourner:

Thanks for the comments. I am pleased to see that they don't require attendence to their meetings, nor do they require that one give up one's friends and family. I had a landlord once who had left scientology, he still had some of his stuff left over from when he was with them. The big thing for them is that they would get you on a diet that would make you rather suceptible to their influence, as well as many other things.

Only an utter f**kwit falls for scientology...