Is there a 'World Jewish Conspiracy'?

[Kidlicious]

Has there ever been a poll taken to find out how many people believe in WJC? I bet the results would be disturbing. I've heard this kind of crap way too often.

[Sirotnikov]

Catholics do it quite often

Teh EVIL cathlics

[Slaughtermeyer]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Has there ever been a poll taken to find out how many people believe in WJC? I bet the results would be disturbing. I've heard this kind of crap way too often.

Strong anti-Jewish attitudes seen in European poll

Conducted by the Anti-Defamation League, the poll showed that 51 percent of respondents in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and Poland believe Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the countries in which they live. The survey also revealed that about half of Europeans believe Jews dictate U.S. policy in the Mideast, wield disproportionate global economic influence, and talk too much about the Holocaust.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/05/strong_antijewish_attitudes_se.php

Even Jews can view other Jews as anti-Semitic. In 2004, Justice Minister Yosef Lapid and Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom accused each other of being anti-Semitic:

http://chareidi.shemayisrael.com/archives5764/BLK64aexchnge.htm

[BeBMan]

I'd like to see that poll/study in detail.

[Slaughtermeyer]

Originally posted by BeBro
I'd like to see that poll/study in detail.

According to an undocumented post which I saw on another website:

Believe 'Jews are more loyal to Israel than to their country'

Austria 38%
Belgium 41%
Denmark 43%
France 29%
Germany 39%
UK 39%
US 35%

Believe 'Jews have too much power in the business world'

Austria 24%
Belgium 33%
Denmark 11%
France 28%
Germany 21%
UK 14%
US 24%

Agree that 'Jews are responsible for the death of Christ'

Austria 16%
Belgium 19%
Denmark 21%
France 13%
Germany 18%
UK 20%
US 30%

[BeBMan]

Link? And the even numbers you posted are all well below 50 %, so why does the article say something like "51 percent of respondents in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and Poland believe Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the countries in which they live"?

BTW, that first question (or better the results there) is hardly an indicator for anti-semitism IMO.

[Heresson]

There's nothing wrong or antisemitic in claiming Jews have too much power in business or that they influence US policy towards Middle East too much, just like there's nothing wrong in claiming it'd be better to have more women in politics, or that german policy towards Poland after the war was incluenced by people from territories formerly belonging to Germany. I just find the will to restrict it by law inappropriate - but not more than laws demanding 30% or 50% of women on election lists.
Jews do have influence in business - but if someone wants to fight it, let him fight by starting his own. As long as it's not a monopoly, it's OK. The problem with pro-israeli (not necessarily jewish!) lobby in the US is that it monopolises the policy and wants to quash any other view.

[BeBMan]

Well, the way these things are usually meant or come out is IMO antisemitic. At least they indicate some vague cliches about Jews, and are hardly result of some great analysis.

I'd doubt that they're facts, and not just prejudices, and they imply something rather stupid, like that more Jews in business make business generally a more Jewish thing (as if a Jew as CEO/whatever would face fundamentally different problems, and therefore would act fundamentally different - more "Jooish", if you will - than any other guy/womyn).

[Heresson]

No, that is not implied per se.

And cliches do not come out of the blue. Thinking of Poles as of a nation of car-thieves is as wrong as thinking of Jews as a nation of cruel bankers, deceitful merchants or whatever. But there are reasons why these stereotypes were borned: many Poles were involved in car-theft, as well as many Jews were involved in financial matters and exploiting teh proletariat. There are two problems in this matter: that Poles as a nation are regarded as car-thieves and that many indeed are; that Jews as a nation are regarded as involved in business and that many indeed are. Acknowledging the latter doesn't have to lead to the first, but strangely, those that are against the notion nr 1 agree with those who support that in that the notion nr 2 leads to notion nr 1, which makes them both wrong.

While ones think: "the black commit more crimes than whites, therefore they are a rase of criminals"
the others think: "the black aren't a rase of criminals, therefore they don't commit more crimes than whites (or it isn't ok to say so)".

There are problems with immigrants in France,
but that does not mean that immigrants are intrinsically problemous.
Blacks do commit more crimes than whites in USA, but that does not mean blacks are a rase of criminals etc.

It's so easy and yet more and more people in Europe and USA lose the ability to grasp it. Wanting to move away from racist and xenophobia, they fall into the extreme - self-loathing liberalism, pacifism, whatever.
Moreover, by claiming that >when people acknowledge that f.e. Poles commit many car-thefts, they are the same claiming that Poles are a nation of thieves<,
they are pushing the moderates and sane either to their side, or to the extremity on the other side - to xenophobia.

I'm a polish patriot, and yet have no trouble admitting that prejudice against Poles had some roots - they earned an image of dumb Pollocks in the States, because these were mostly poor uneducated peasants that were emigrating there.
They earned an image of thieves in Germany, because many did steal.
They earned an image of greedy and cruel landlords in Byelorus and Ukraine, because many of them actually were greedy and cruel landlords (ukrainian landlords got polonised and roman-catholicised, while peasants mostly remained greek catholic / orthodox and ruthenian).

I am very annoyed with nations which try to deny it. That applies to Jews, Arabs, Poles and all the nations in the world.

))))
Apart from that, Bebro, I must add that it's obvious in sociology that when two divisions are in the same place, they magnify each other: economical divisions are stronger when they divide people of different rase or religion, and vice versa. And it works for both sides:
A jewish banker, at least in the past, would be more likely to treat his fellow religionist better than a goy, and a goy that felt taken advantage of by him would feel it stronger than a jewish person. These are very simple laws, I advise lecture of my beloved Aronson and others.

[BeBMan]

As usual, I'm far too lazy for a longer post, so just some things:

"Jews do have influence in business" - this may very well be right, but it's also some kind of a non-issue, because (nearly) everyone has "influence in business". Rich Arab guys hold some quite big shares of Daimler Benz, and hardly anyone would think that this makes DB a centre of the AWC (also known as Arab World Conspiracy).

Similarly German companies have business influence worldwide, so have American companies, Japanese, etc, etc., so why are "Jews" something special here? The same can be said when you do not look at nationality, but at religion - nobody would care about if big guys in business are christian or muslim, so why even bring it up?

Now to say "Jews have too much influence" is a bit different, because it certainly implies (intendet or not) that there's something wrong, and that this influence has to be reduced (otherwise some wouldn't say it's too much), and here the question arises what is "too much", and how do we know that it's "too much" and not "just right" or even "barely enough"?

These are very simple laws

These are no laws, but - at best - tendencies in certain milieus, and I doubt that they're generally true. A good business man would primarily care if a guys sucks at his job or not....Esp. in a more and more globalized economy where nationality, religion etc. become less important.

The problem with pro-israeli (not necessarily jewish!) lobby in the US is that it monopolises the policy and wants to quash any other view.

Dunno if they de facto monopolize it (USians?) but re "squashing other views" - I'd say that goes pretty much for any lobby group. I doubt there's any lobby which cares much about interests of another one....

edit oh ****, it's actually quite a long post

[Heresson]

Originally posted by BeBro
As usual, I'm far too lazy for a longer post, so just some things:

"Jews do have influence in business" - this may very well be right, but it's also some kind of a non-issue, because (nearly) everyone has "influence in business". Rich Arab guys hold some quite big shares of Daimler Benz, and hardly anyone would think that this makes DB a centre of the AWC (also known as Arab World Conspiracy).

No, there's a difference. In Germany, there were german people with influence in business, in France there were french ones etc, but jewish ones were everywhere. Of course, that only shows that they are a talented people, and that living in diaspora has some advantages (Armenians, when they developed a diaspora, became more influential in trade as well), but it means that they were visible. Jews were the only religious minority tolerated in Europe, and in many parts the only national minority. In Poland, Jews dominated small-scale trade, which was welcomed by the gentry. In muslim Egypt, Jews (and Christians) dominated the finances as well.
I am pretty sure trade and business were more common among Jews than other nations. It's a matter of benefit from diaspora, intellectualism forced by their culture and religion, family tradition etc. Nothing wrong per se.
But just like Poles were represented in Ukraine by a gentryman, a Jew was by a small trader, tavern-owner, etc. They received advantages of it and disadvantages.

Similarly German companies have business influence worldwide, so have American companies, Japanese, etc,

now. 200 years ago - no. Jews were pioneers in that matter, among a couple of other nations, and that's one of the reasons for their image.

The same can be said when you do not look at nationality, but at religion - nobody would care about if big guys in business are christian or muslim, so why even bring it up?

Now to say "Jews have too much influence" is a bit different, because it certainly implies (intendet or not) that there's something wrong, and that this influence has to be reduced (otherwise some wouldn't say it's too much), and here the question arises what is "too much", and how do we know that it's "too much" and not "just right" or even "barely enough"?

A monopoly or something close to monopoly is always dangerous. I do think there are too little women in politics, or I do think that situation in polish law schools before ww2, where 90% students were Jews, is not good, just as if all the supermodels were blond-haired and blue-eyed. As I've stated though, I am against creating quotas.
Saying that "Jews have too big influence in X" doesn't necessarily exclude saying that "Poles / Arabs / Germans have too big influence in X". So saying it is fine for me, as long as any other nation in the same situation would be treaten the same.

A good business man would primarily care if a guys sucks at his job or not....Esp. in a more and more globalized economy where nationality, religion etc. become less important.

But of course. I'm not saying it's something most important, and I agree that it's mostly (but never completely, as long as these divisions exist) a matter of the past. But I'm against denying it in the name of political correctness.

Dunno if they de facto monopolize it (USians?) but re "squashing other views" - I'd say that goes pretty much for any lobby group. I doubt there's any lobby which cares much about interests of another one....

But in this matter, a matter of diplomacy and army of the only world superpower, a more balanced policy is more important than anywhere else.

[Slaughtermeyer]

Here is former MK Uri Avnery's explanation for the growth of anti-Semitism in Europe, in an article written a few months before the invasion of Iraq:

http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery1002.html

[VetLegion]

Similarly German companies have business influence worldwide, so have American companies, Japanese, etc, etc., so why are "Jews" something special here?

It's definitely not a non-issue. Look at it this way. Germany is world's greatest exporter. But there are only 80 million Germans, and some of them are lazy and post on internet all the time. Why is Germany then the biggest exporter?

This may seem like a non-issue to you, but it's fascinating to me. And I even think it's important. If we could figure out how to replicate 20% of German living standard everywhere, world would become a place without hunger.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by VetLegion

Similarly German companies have business influence worldwide, so have American companies, Japanese, etc, etc., so why are "Jews" something special here?

It's definitely not a non-issue. Look at it this way. Germany is world's greatest exporter. But there are only 80 million Germans, and some of them are lazy and post on internet all the time. Why is Germany then the biggest exporter?

This may seem like a non-issue to you, but it's fascinating to me. And I even think it's important. If we could figure out how to replicate 20% of German living standard everywhere, world would become a place without hunger.

Germany is the world's largest exported because of the nature of their economy and the size of their country. Not a great mystery.

The difference between them and Jewish people, as has been touched on in this thread, is that Jews are disporportionately represented in large western business, especially finance. Again, the reasons for this are fairly straight forward and have been touched on here. The concern among some loonies is that the Jews all somehow conspire in their positions towards some common, Joo-dominated worldly goal.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by VetLegion
It's definitely not a non-issue. Look at it this way. Germany is world's greatest exporter. But there are only 80 million Germans, and some of them are lazy and post on internet all the time. Why is Germany then the biggest exporter?

Productivity, and specialization of the economy to export goods. The US isn't doing bad either but we export more. Most exports go into other EU countries, as do exports of most EU countries. But still, the EU net exports more than the US.