To mess with one is to mess with all

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Pekka
But again, show me a country where this isn't the case. Hey, my mom is a permanent resident in the US with no citizenship and rightly so. She's a tax payer and active in the community. So what? If she wants, she can always return here if she wants to be a in place where she is a citizen.

Those people may have lived in Latvia for all their lives. It's completely different from newly arrived immigrants.

[Pekka]

Ok. Well, if a person was born in there, you know, don't they grant citizenship pretty much automatically? If not, well, that might be an issue as well. Of course this would extend like.. if a person has lived there for a very very long time, few decades, I mean this should be a huge thing and for granting citizenship, especially if you haven't been in and out of jail most of that time.

But again, these are the known issues and similar problems are found in almost every country. It doesn't make the problems disappear or make them not-problems, but this is still so common that I don't know what the international fuzz is about.

[The Vagabond]

In Latvia and Estonia such problems concern a considerable chunk of the population. This cannot be compared with "similar problems in almost every country".

[Pekka]

Yes it can, because a considerable chunk have the same problems.

Is this the point where you say Russia is cornered and as a player does things kind of accidentally?

[Cort Haus]

There seem to be double standards from the EU wrt ethnic minorities in Eastern Europe. Depending on the geo-strategic situation, it's either "ZOMG oppressed minority" or "put up and shut up".

I had a friend who was a Latvian Russian, and it was clear that she'd have got a lot more sympathy from the EU if she's been a Macedonian Albanian.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Pekka
Is this the point where you say Russia is cornered and as a player does things kind of accidentally?

Russia is flirting with fascism. Certainly, authoritarianism is on the menu. Given this, and our past experience with such regimes, I would wish to have Russia cornered. These folks don't seem to be reliable.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
There seem to be double standards from the EU wrt ethnic minorities in Eastern Europe. Depending on the geo-strategic situation, it's either "ZOMG oppressed minority" or "put up and shut up".

I had a friend who was a Latvian Russian, and it was clear that she'd have got a lot more sympathy from the EU if she's been a Macedonian Albanian.

As I see it, these are unconcealed double standards based upon geopolitical expediency.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Pekka
Yes it can, because a considerable chunk have the same problems.

No, don't confuse the newly arrived immigrants and the people who were born there (during the times of the Soviet Union.

Is this the point where you say Russia is cornered and as a player does things kind of accidentally?

This is just a particular issue. Russia is cornered on the situation in its entirety. I never said "kind of accidentally", perhaps rather "out of despair".

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by DanS


Russia is flirting with fascism. Certainly, authoritarianism is on the menu. Given this, and our past experience with such regimes, I would wish to have Russia cornered. These folks don't seem to be reliable.

So you support declaring a new cold war on Russia?

[Pekka]

Listen, if this is how Russia acts out of despair, and these are the issues it considers it needs to be acting out of despair, I mean this baltic trio seems to be chunk change as well.

Do you truly consider to be a victim here? Do you consider, that Russians are being victimized by outsiders who are doing it out of hatred and spesifically targeting Russians? Better yet, do you consider it's some kind of remnant of past 'fascist tendencies' ?

[DanS]

Vagabond: No. Absolutely not. Why would it be needed? It's 10 to 1.

[Pekka]

DanS, stop being such an aggressor.. people have to defend against your brute behaviour

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Pekka
Do you truly consider to be a victim here? Do you consider, that Russians are being victimized by outsiders who are doing it out of hatred and spesifically targeting Russians?

Not out of hatred as such. Just because Russia is a geopolitical rival.

As Russia is much weaker than the opposing side, I consider Russia to be a victim here.

Better yet, do you consider it's some kind of remnant of past 'fascist tendencies' ?

Kind of deja-vu of Russia being cornered by the West.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by DanS
Vagabond: No. Absolutely not. Why would it be needed? It's 10 to 1.

So you think that the adversary is so weak that it's not even worth your declaring a cold war on him?

[Pekka]

Cornered by the west, because bunch of people aren't getting citizenship because they don't speak the language.

What ****ing bull****. Now the cornered player as you put it is an elephant in the china shop. The BIG Latvia, as a central part of unified west, proof is being a member of EU, is again, once again attacking Russia. What the **** are you on? Do you even have a clue what SU did to Baltics? Wha the **** are you on, seriously? Cornering again? HOly mother of Jebus this must be an episode of twilight zone.

A monkey, bottle of beer and the sun. Coudl it happen? YES IT CAN!

Then again, that's EXACTLY what Hitler claimed. THey were cornered too. I don't particularly like bringing up the nazi comparisons, but it would be deceptive not to.