Vegan Baby Killers

[snoopy369]

My real question: Why is a life sentence mandatory for involuntary manslaughter? What's the #@$^@# point of having different degrees of "murder" if life sentence is mandatory for the wimpiest type of it?

Snoopy's Murder/Manslaughter Guidelines [in my perfect state]:

• Murder 1: Intentional, premeditated murder. Life, or death.
• Murder 2: Intentional, but not premeditated. Life.
• Voluntary Manslaughter: Heat of the moment; not exactly unintentional, but not something you'd do if you had time to think about it. 10-20 years.
• Involuntary Manslaughter: Unintentional, you did something that caused someone to die. 3 to 10 years [depending on recklessness etc.]
• Vehicular Manslaughter: Same as involuntary, but using a car. 3 to 10 years, but if aggravated by DUI/DWI, 20 years (like voluntary).

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by General Ludd The vast majority of meat eaten in our society doesn't really taste that great. It's the sauces, herbs, and artifical flavouring that does.

How do you know? On what evidence are you basing that sweeping claim?

[KrazyHorse]

The only things which taste great without spices, sauces, flavourings etc. are fruits (and possibly breads).

Meats add a unique and important flavour to the dishes they're in, just as vegetables do to the dishes they're in.

The only meat I'm aware of which tastes absolutely awful without additives is crappy ground beef. Even if you don't season a good steak or a nice piece of lamb (or even chicken) it tastes pretty good after cooking. Same with some fish.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Wycoff


How do you know? On what evidence are you basing that sweeping claim?

1) From experience, both in eating and cooking.

2) Fast food gets all it's flavour from artifical flavouring.



Only certains animals like lamb, fish, and (from what I've been told) certain other game animals realy have a distinct flavour to them.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by General Ludd
1) From experience, both in eating and cooking.

2) Fast food gets all it's flavour from artifical flavouring.

1. You've eaten and cooked meat and still think that it gets its flavor mostly or completely from spices, flavorings, etc? As KH pointed out, meat has distinctive flavor of its own. There are usually spices or sauces used to compliment or enhance the meat flavor, but the flavor of the meat is the most important part for all but the most terrible meat dishes (in which spices are used to hide the meat flavor.)

I agree with you on the fast food part, but that falls within the category of a terrible meat dish. The meat is highly processed and of low quality, and the sauces are there because the fast food meat wouldn't have any taste without them.

Fast food aside, I think that you're completely off base in regards to other meat dishes. If you consider the moderate use of spices and herbs to help enhance / compliment a meat flavor as being an admission that "meat doesn't taste that great," then you'd have to say that vegetables don't taste that great either. Most vegetable dishes incorporate herbs and spices to some degree.

Only certains animals like lamb, fish, and (from what I've been told) certain other game animals realy have a distinct flavour to them.

I disagree with you here as well. Beef has a distinct taste, as does pork, turkey, venison, etc. They only taste bland if they are poorly prepared (usually overcooked.)

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Wycoff


I agree with you on the fast food part, but that falls within the category of a terrible meat dish. The meat is highly processed and of low quality, and the sauces are there because the fast food meat wouldn't have any taste without them.

I didn't say all meat is bland and tasteless, I said the vast majority of meat consumed in our society doesn't taste that great. Most of it is, as you say, highly processed and of low quality.

Fast food aside, I think that you're completely off base in regards to other meat dishes. If you consider the moderate use of spices and herbs to help enhance / compliment a meat flavor as being an admission that "meat doesn't taste that great," then you'd have to say that vegetables don't taste that great either. Most vegetable dishes incorporate herbs and spices to some degree.

I'm not the one using the argument that X kind of food tastes great, so that's why people should eat it all the time. It's a stupid argument. You might aswell be a chocolatarian.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by General Ludd I didn't say all meat is bland and tasteless, I said the vast majority of meat consumed in our society doesn't taste that great. Most of it is, as you say, highly processed and of low quality.

And like I asked, where are you getting your figures? Where can you show that the "vast majority" (what does that mean? 80%? 90%?) of the meat that we eat falls into that category? Fast food meat and crappy colds cuts like Oscar Mayer might constitute a majority of the meat consumed in the U.S., but I doubt that it constitutes the vast majority of the meat eaten. I don't know though, because I don't know what the statistics are regarding that.

Unless you can show that the vast majority of meats consumed in the U.S. are of that type of hyper-processed meat, then I'll have to disagree with your premise. Even the meat that you get at the average grocery store has good flavor with only moderate spice levels if you're a halfway competent cook.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by General Ludd
I'm not the one using the argument that X kind of food tastes great, so that's why people should eat it all the time.

Who is?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by snoopy369
People aren't starving due to inefficient farming, it's due to the method of the distribution of wealth. We grow enough food to feed 6 billion people, no problem... but some of them live in Rwanda, that's the problem. IIRC, we can grow enough food with today's farming methods and reasonably assumed advances in technology to feed about 10 or 11 billion people, before we'd have to start using other methods of food production [nanotech, space-based hydroponics, etc.]

The distribution of wealth is unlikely to change in the short run. If youre an impoverished tea picker in Rwanda, buying grain/legumes to eat, whose price is set by the world market, talk of not yet implemented techs, and of alt distributions of wealth is worth squat to you. The only things someone sitting behind screen in the first world can do for you, is A. Increase the price of tea B. Decrease the price of grain/legumes C. Send money in some form or another.

Its great if youre personally doing C. If someone else, whos borderline about consuming meat, chooses to take into account the impact of meat/dairy consumption on prices for grain/legumes, and eat less animal prodcuts, that seems to me to be legitimate.

Though of course we should not ignore that there are many other ways to waste food, and its kinda unfair to single out consumption of animal products.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by LordShiva


Who is?

One way of reading this.

"They're asking for it. They taste good."


Of course we could read Straybow as "They are asking for it ONLY when they taste good" IE meat eating is justified at Mortons, but not at McDonalds. I think that would be an interesting POV.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
One way of reading this.

"They're asking for it. They taste good."

I don't read that as saying "so that's why people should eat it all the time."

[KrazyHorse]

Decrease the price of grain/legumes

These are not necessarily fungible commodities. Transportation costs, trade barriers, price controls and subsidies all play a huge part. I sincerely doubt that my ceasing to to eat beef from cattle raised in Alberta, Nebraska, Argentina and Australia is really going to make a difference in grain prices in Zimbabwe.

[General Ludd]

It's been my experience that in any discussion about eating meat, those in favour are generally speaking in terms of eating meat on a daily basis. People who eat meat rarely will typically be sympathetic to the vegetarian/vegan stance on the issue - and often times even call themselves that.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by General Ludd
The vast majority of meat eaten in our society doesn't really taste that great. It's the sauces, herbs, and artifical flavouring that does.

What do you do? Just drink the sauce?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Wycoff
Fast food meat and crappy colds cuts like Oscar Mayer might constitute a majority of the meat consumed in the U.S., but I doubt that it constitutes the vast majority of the meat eaten.

Is this just a quibble over semantics? The difference between "majority" and "vast majority"? I don't think it really matters to the point I was making.