How do you, as a meat-eater, justify the violence inherent in your food?

[Zkribbler]

Re: Re: How do you, as a meat-eater, justify the violence inherent in your food?

Originally posted by Heresson


How do You justify violence against plants, which can't even try to defend themselves or run away?

Darn...I wanted to say this!

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


Yeah, but we are incapable of digesting grass for example whereas cows are. So we could eat ten times more grass than beef but we wouldn't get anywhere near as much energy out of it, in fact probably expend more energy digesting than what we would absorb.

sounds like a new weight loss diet plan in the making.

[Jon Miller]

You know Provost Harrison that most of the food tha cows and other animals eat is stuff that we could eat (I think mostly corn).

Jon Miller

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I think human beings are more compassionate, and more fully human, when they extend to animals some of the compassion they feel toward humans. I recognize important differences, but I think our first test of an argument should be to apply it to humans - if it does NOT work for humans the next step is to see if the differences betwween animals and humans make it applicable to animals anyway. I dont deny that it could be applicable to animals but not to humans - I just dont accept that the differences between animals and humans mean theres no need to examine our behavior towards animals - and given your eloquent discussion of the benefits to animals of being raised as meat, I would be surprised that you saw no need. If animals have no rights whatsover, why would it matter if they benefited?

I don't believe we should have zero compassion towards animals, and I would prefer my meat to be killed as painlessly as possible. I just get concerned when animalists equate lab rats with people, to use a stark example.

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by LordShiva


You are commie hippie anarchist scum

Meat in moderation
Meat in huge quantities

Where I live now (Argentina), people eat over 70 kilos of cow meat per year, they top the list and I think they even double the next ones following them in the list (yanks)

rivers of cow blood

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Barnabas


Where I live now (Argentina), people eat over 70 kilos of cow meat per year, they top the list and I think they even double the next ones following them in the list (yanks)

rivers of cow blood

Argentina is definitely on my top 5 list of places to visit - great house music scene, hot women, and lots of beef

I've eaten at Rodizios in Brazil (and Fogo do Chao :drool: ), I imagine there are similar places in Argentina.

[Lord Avalon]

*dinner bell*

Come and eat the violence inherent in the system!

(apologies to Monty Python)

(no apologies to vegetarians)

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Barnabas
Where I live now (Argentina)

Where in Argentina do you live? My brother spent a year in Bariloche as an exchange student a few years ago.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
You know Provost Harrison that most of the food tha cows and other animals eat is stuff that we could eat (I think mostly corn).

Jon Miller

I understand the point that you're trying to make, Jon. In absolute terms, humanity could create more food consumable by humans if we devoted all of our food creating processes to vegatarianism rather than our current omnivorous practices.

I think that this point is mitigated by two factors. The first is that current hunger problems stem from our system of distribution, not from our food production methods. We already produce enough food to feed everyone on Earth. Governments even pay farmers to let some of their fields lie fallow. The fact that we could theoretically create more food by switching all food production to vegatables is meaningless when these facts are considered.

The second point is that all of our methods of food production kill animals. Millions of animals die when humanity harvests its vegatables. Switching to vegatarianism would save cows, pigs, chickens, and turkeys, but would lead to the deaths of even more field mice, snakes, etc. Why should vegatarians be anymore comfortable with the loss of animal life caused by their lifestyle than they are with the loss of animal life caused by the lifestyle of omnivores like myself?

[Jon Miller]

I agree that the current issue is distribution. I don't consider it a reason to be vegeterrian. Just to provide a counter to PH's statement, and to setup my troll that Kuci ruined.

Jon Miller

[DaShi]

Too nice.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


Here's your original claim:

A secular reason to be vegeterrian is that it is a more efficient use of earth's resources. A lot more food goes to feeding a cow or pig than the meat it produces.

Jon Miller

Not really, since everything in nature is recycled. If you continue with this argument, then you need to get rid of all animals and pretty much anything else that doesn't derive it's energy directly from the sun.

In case you still haven't noticed, that was a totally worthless answer to my (and Jon's) argument.

Actually, because of the way that Jon wrote it, I had a different interpretation of his. His next response seemed to confirm my initial impression. However, his last response made it clear to me what he was really getting at. So since, I didn't disagree with him, I couldn't very well argue against it. Then you, not seeing what's going on, decide to jump in. Since I had realized that there were actually two arguments going on, I asked you what you meant by your question. Your response was. . .well. . .rude. In fact, you were rather rude to begin with. Since the rest of your post is just based on your misunderstanding and you being you, there's no need for be to respond to it. The only thing I did wrong was to sink to your level.

Now if you are going to jump into other people's debates, try getting your bearing first. And be ready to field a few a questions, as you introduce new ideas into it. Also remember, if you act like a jerk, you're likely be treated like one. But if you need insults to win your debates. . .

[Edited - because I'm too nice ]

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I agree that the current issue is distribution. I don't consider it a reason to be vegeterrian. Just to provide a counter to PH's statement, and to setup my troll that Kuci ruined.

Jon Miller

sorry

[Harovan]

Originally posted by LordShiva
Argentina is definitely on my top 5 list of places to visit - great house music scene, hot women, and lots of beef

Aren't you supposed to worship cows, heathen?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by LordShiva

Meat in huge quantities

I like a big sausage.