How do you, as a meat-eater, justify the violence inherent in your food?

[Arrian]

What justification will you, as a meat-eater, give to stop yourself being killed and eaten yourself?

I assume we'd argue that we are sentient beings like the aliens, and thus shouldn't be considered food. If they don't buy it and go all War of the Worlds on us, we'd have to fight. Making their consumption of the "delicacy" of human meat costly might deter them. We could also try introducing them to the wonders of beef...

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

The animals I eat aren't people. Duh.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by aneeshm
Let's turn the situation around a bit.

Imagine a race of aliens invades Earth tomorrow. Or rather, they just show up in the neighbourhood. For them, human meat is delicious. Also assume that they exist on a higher plane of consciousness or rationality than we do. Their technology is so much more advanced than ours that we are playthings in their hands.

Now they, seeing that we kill and eat animals based on the idea that we are more advanced or rational than animals, conclude that we cannot claim the right not to be eaten. They commence humanely slaughtering humans, and sending us back to their home planet in little tin cans. They don't kill too many - only a few million every year.

What justification will you, as a meat-eater, give to stop yourself being killed and eaten yourself?

Animals eat us.

I personally wanted to become a vegetarian since my childhood, because I loved animals and read about St Francisco (do You know about him, aneeshm?), who claimed animals are our brothers and sisters and so on.
But my parents forced me to eat meat.
Then, I stopped eating meat during my studies, and didn't eat meat at all (apart from visits at home), for two years. I've started eating meat again in Syria, and continue to do so, except for that it's rarely and mostly fish. I don't buy meet except for
- fish sticks
- tuna cans
and sometimes, a hamburger or a shawarma (in Syria, but I was almost only buying it if there was no falafel, and my friends were buying it). I eat non-fish meat a couple times a year.
I think claiming eating fish is a biasphemy, because Jesus fed us fish, so claiming that eating fish is as to claim Jesus did something wrong.
Jesus wants us to eat fish
Actually, it could be an argument against christianity.
Anyway, I think it is wrong to be a fundamentalist in any case. Especially that, as I've mentioned, killing plants to eat seems wrong to me as well.

[KrazyHorse]

Now they, seeing that we kill and eat animals based on the idea that we are more advanced or rational

My justification is not relative. It is absolute.

[Asher]

You are weak, Indian boy.

[Dinner]

"How do you, as a meat-eater, justify the violence inherent in your food?"

Because it tastes good and because the animal would never have existed in the first place if it hadn't been breed and raised to be food. Think about it, domesticated animals have been a huge biological success because humans have breed them and provided them with food, water, and shelter. Sure, they end up on the dinner table but the species as a whole have vastly increased their numbers because of it.

[Harovan]

This thread makes me hungry. Gotta stop by the butcher's store on the way home and get a kilogramm of fresh kill (blessed be those who still have a real butcher in their surroundings and not only huge supermarkets). Or may be I'll have a grilled chicken?

Animals eat other animals too and nobody is asking whether it's just or not. Humans are animals too, and omnivores by nature, which means they nourish on both vegetables and meat. And that's exactly what I'm doing.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Oerdin
"How do you, as a meat-eater, justify the violence inherent in your food?"

Because it tastes good and because the animal would never have existed in the first place if it hadn't been breed and raised to be food. Think about it, domesticated animals have been a huge biological success because humans have breed them and provided them with food, water, and shelter. Sure, they end up on the dinner table but the species as a whole have vastly increased their numbers because of it.

The alien butcher speaks to the alien vegetarian, at a time when the aliens have taken stocks of humans to their home planet to breed, where they are bred in the billions:

Because it tastes good and because the human would never have existed in the first place if it hadn't been breed and raised to be food. Think about it, domesticated humans have been a huge biological success because humans have breed them and provided them with food, water, and shelter. Sure, they end up on the dinner table but the species as a whole have vastly increased their numbers because of it.

[lord of the mark]

i was raised as a meat eater, and its not easy to change. However as an intermediate step I have adopted some of principles of kashrut, which limit my meat eating.

I do not eat the meat of any animals forbidden by the laws of kashrut. This excludes the commonly eaten pig, as well as many animals seldom eaten in the west.

I have resolved not to eat the meat of dear, buffalo, goat. I have managed to stick to this.

I have resolved to limiting my eating of red meat to beef. I have occasionally failed, and eaten lamb. Time to resolve again.

My longer term intention is to cease to eat beef that isnt kosher slaughtered. This would not only represent a theoretical limitation on beef eating, as a practical matter it would force me to eat beef less often, due to the difficulties and costs in many situations in obtaining kosher beef.

Im not sure I can see my way to becoming a full vegetarian, but I certainly see that as the ultimate goal, lighting the way to intermediate steps.

Meanwhile I try to be a gracious host when we have a vegetarian visiting us, and to provide completely vegetarian food.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian


I assume we'd argue that we are sentient beings like the aliens, and thus shouldn't be considered food.

-Arrian

Their argument is that we don't deserve those rights, because we don't respect it WRT lower lifeforms, so they are not obligated to respect it WRT us (because we are, from their POV, a lower lifeform).

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
This thread makes me hungry. Gotta stop by the butcher's store on the way home and get a kilogramm of fresh kill (blessed be those who still have a real butcher in their surroundings and not only huge supermarkets). Or may be I'll have a grilled chicken?

Animals eat other animals too and nobody is asking whether it's just or not. Humans are animals too, and omnivores by nature, which means they nourish on both vegetables and meat. And that's exactly what I'm doing.

I only know of one butcher shop in my area and it's kind of far away.

It's actually run by an old German guy, his wife, and their son.

[Tattila the Hun]

Meat is murder! Delicious, tasty, juicy murder!

[RGBVideo]

Re: How do you, as a meat-eater, justify the violence inherent in your food?

Originally posted by aneeshm
As a vegetarian, I consider meat eating to be abhorrent

As a vegetarian, you are an arrogant douche who bathes in your moral superiority because you haven't really thought how food is made.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
i was raised as a meat eater, and its not easy to change. However as an intermediate step I have adopted some of principles of kashrut, which limit my meat eating.

I do not eat the meat of any animals forbidden by the laws of kashrut. This excludes the commonly eaten pig, as well as many animals seldom eaten in the west.

I have resolved not to eat the meat of dear, buffalo, goat. I have managed to stick to this.

I have resolved to limiting my eating of red meat to beef. I have occasionally failed, and eaten lamb. Time to resolve again.

My longer term intention is to cease to eat beef that isnt kosher slaughtered. This would not only represent a theoretical limitation on beef eating, as a practical matter it would force me to eat beef less often, due to the difficulties and costs in many situations in obtaining kosher beef.

Im not sure I can see my way to becoming a full vegetarian, but I certainly see that as the ultimate goal, lighting the way to intermediate steps.

Meanwhile I try to be a gracious host when we have a vegetarian visiting us, and to provide completely vegetarian food.

As a vegetarian, I'm not that picky - I'll eat at the same table where meat is served. But I won't eat any myself.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
This thread makes me hungry. Gotta stop by the butcher's store on the way home and get a kilogramm of fresh kill (blessed be those who still have a real butcher in their surroundings and not only huge supermarkets). Or may be I'll have a grilled chicken?

Animals eat other animals too and nobody is asking whether it's just or not. Humans are animals too, and omnivores by nature, which means they nourish on both vegetables and meat. And that's exactly what I'm doing.

I think the idea is that humans are beyond animals in our ability to reason ethically. Its got less to do with justice, and more to do with what we as humans aspire to being.