Scissors, lighters, bottles of hand lotion, the Costitution of the United States...

[Kuciwalker]

lotm wins, obviously

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Except at MIT, apparently

Nice try at semantics, however, a (parenthetical) use of the word does not assert an exact equality of the two words. It's nice to know that unlike Kuci, you're at least attempting to extend yourself.

The scope of inderminate errors would include both random (i.e. really, truly, random) and pseudo-random (i.e. based on underlying pattern, order, or manipulation of results which is not known to or discernable to an observer) errors.

It would be a reasonable presumption that in an analytical chemistry class, the students would not be artificially gaming the experimental data to introduce pseudo-random errors, and that those errors which were indeterminate would therefore not have a pseudo-random component.

Edit -

If you want some real discussion of randomness vs. pseudo-randomness, check out the issues underlying true random number generation in computer science.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
lotm wins, obviously

Unfortunately, no, but then it wouldn't take much to get by you.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

[Kuciwalker]

If they are using a computer pRNG it is effectively random. Hell, lottery numbers are technically pseudorandom given that the mechanical processes used are essentially deterministic. Arguing from that that the selections aren't random makes you a pedantic idiot.

[DinoDoc]

Out of interest, how would hasseling "brown people with funny names" catch the guys with normal names like Richard Reid? Instead of racial profiling as MtG seems to advocate, wouldn't a regime of behavioral profiling yield better results?

[lord of the mark]

and you critiqued the TSA for using random selection. IIUC truely random numbers are considered superior for most purposes to pseudo random number generators. If the TSA used pseudorandom number generators, why would that be superior to truely random selection?

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Out of interest, how would hasseling "brown people with funny names" catch the guys with normal names like Richard Reid? Instead of racial profiling as MtG seems to advocate, wouldn't a regime of behavioral profiling yield better results?

Simple: Hassle brown guys with normal names as well...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Simple: Hassle brown guys with normal names as well...

What about white guys like John Walker Lindh?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Out of interest, how would hasseling "brown people with funny names" catch the guys with normal names like Richard Reid? Instead of racial profiling as MtG seems to advocate, wouldn't a regime of behavioral profiling yield better results?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/01/opinion/main1960443.shtml

Yup. But it wouldnt make as good a troll.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
and you critiqued the TSA for using random selection. IIUC truely random numbers are considered superior for most purposes to pseudo random number generators. If the TSA used pseudorandom number generators, why would that be superior to truely random selection?

For this purpose a pRNG is a true RNG. Neither side is able to make any prediction as to the result.

[Kuciwalker]

The only time a true RNG is useful is in encryption (e.g. to generate one-time pads) and, possibly, scientific simulations.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Out of interest, how would hasseling "brown people with funny names" catch the guys with normal names like Richard Reid? Instead of racial profiling as MtG seems to advocate, wouldn't a regime of behavioral profiling yield better results?

Reread the thread. I never advocated racial profiling, but profiling based on whatever intelligence and law enforcement data is available at any given time regarding potential threats. That is still dominated by males of middle eastern descent between certain ages.
For those (not necessarily you, DD) too obtuse to understand irony or sarcasm, I consistently use the term "brown people" in political discussions somewhat less than literally.

Wrt Reid - he wasn't screened out under any system, he was a dumb ****ing amateur easily caught attempting something which had very low likelihood of working.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
What about white guys like John Walker Lindh?

So how is picking every hundredth or so white guy going to intercept Lindh? Other than (assuming he hadn't been caught overseas and his only flights of interest were as a guest of the USG) his passport data indicating some of the fun places he'd been on vacation - ah, but that would be profiling.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
If they are using a computer pRNG it is effectively random. Hell, lottery numbers are technically pseudorandom given that the mechanical processes used are essentially deterministic. Arguing from that that the selections aren't random makes you a pedantic idiot.

Nice to know you can flip red herrings as well as burgers. Only trouble is I'm not arguing lottery numbers or anything other than pointing out the falsity of LoTM's assertion that anything less than 100% selection of all passengers is random.