Scissors, lighters, bottles of hand lotion, the Costitution of the United States...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
ah, but that would be profiling.

Isn't that what I suggested? Behavioral profiling?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Nice to know you can flip red herrings as well as burgers. Only trouble is I'm not arguing lottery numbers or anything other than pointing out the falsity of LoTM's assertion that anything less than 100% selection of all passengers is random.

I claimed it was random to assert that there was no diff between youre proposal and what was done now, in terms of randomness. So, youve effectively quibbled that I should have said indeterminate, which could include pseudo random in charecterizing your proposal. But that applies just as well to the status quo, which YOU charecterized as random, similarly incorrectly, unless you know for a fact that TSA uses a true random number generator, which your scheme would dispense with.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
and you critiqued the TSA for using random selection. IIUC truely random numbers are considered superior for most purposes to pseudo random number generators. If the TSA used pseudorandom number generators, why would that be superior to truely random selection?

I'm not even vaguely interested in the mechanics of "random" or "pseudorandom" selection in the TSA process.

My point with respect to the meaning of random is that your earlier contention that it's random unless you inspect all passengers is wrong.

I have argued that any so-called "random" inspections of air passengers are a waste, as they reduce the capacity to inspect higher risk passengers, i.e. those who fit into intelligence or law enforcement profiles as more likely candidates for attempting to engage in acts against the aircraft, passengers or crews.

If you've got inspectors sitting around with nothing to do (seen that on a few redeye flights), then be as random as you want. In most flights at most airports, the inspectors are pretty much continuously busy, and they are not staffed at a level to perform a significantly higher level of screening on a large proportion of passengers.

Therefore, my position is that it is more cost and security effective to give extra scrutiny to as many passengers as possible (within the staffing capacity alotted to the screening operation) who fit intel and law enforcement profiles as being more likely to be subjects of interest.

If the FBI busts an al Qaeda sleeper cell consisting of a blond-haired blue-eyed American born guy named Smith and a couple of housewives on Wisteria Lane, then profiling can go down the crapper.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Isn't that what I suggested? Behavioral profiling?

I wouldn't just suggest behavioral profiling, or that it has to be labelled in any particular way. Behavioral + demographic + any specific intel or law enforcement info.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Kuci, MtG is pwning you all over the place - but don't stop, it's fun to watch!

This thread is indeed amusing.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


I'm not even vaguely interested in the mechanics of "random" or "pseudorandom" selection in the TSA process.

My point with respect to the meaning of random is that your earlier contention that it's random unless you inspect all passengers is wrong.

But thats a straw man. I said its "random" (or indeterminate, if you prefer) as long as you inspect less than 100%, and more than 0, of any grouping, however defined.

And in your line up to Hawaii, I dont know that there is any group that merits 100% selection thats there in sufficient numbers to use all the inspector time. How many citizens of Muslim countries are on that line? Do you suggest 100% inspection of folks from other "brown" countries? 100% inspection of US citizens with muslim sounding names?


Lets say you do, and youre still left with plenty of inspector time (as I suspect you would be, on most domestic flights). Do you now do 100% on brown people who dont have muslim names? Proceed to 100% of white Americans who have dark hair and eyes, and look like theyre from New York rather than Iowa? I would suggest that "random" selections (with differing percentages) make more sense than prioritized 100% selections, other than for the highest risk categories.

[KrazyHorse]

This might be the most boring thread on the front page, even with competition from:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164721

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164731

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137969

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164801

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157043

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164012

[Jon Miller]

And the title made it sound like it might be interesting too.

Jon Miller

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
This might be the most boring thread on the front page, even with competition from:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164721

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164731

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137969

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164801

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157043

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=164012

I happen to think "time to upgrade the laptop" is one of the most interesting poly threads of all time

[KrazyHorse]

That says more about you than about the thread.

[lord of the mark]

Ok, I know I dont do this sarcasm thing very well. How many smilies would it take to clarify? Or am I supposed to read your response as ironic, pretending not to notice the sarcasm in mine? Help me, please

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
This might be the most boring thread on the front page, even with competition from:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164721

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164731

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137969

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164801

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157043

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=164012

All threads are boring.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Ok, I know I dont do this sarcasm thing very well. How many smilies would it take to clarify? Or am I supposed to read your response as ironic, pretending not to notice the sarcasm in mine? Help me, please

It's no fun when I explain it to you.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


It's no fun when I explain it to you.

Then I'll explain it to you. I knew very well why my laptop RAM thread was boring to most everyone except, well, certain computer nerds, and to myself, who am interested in it almost purely because its useful to me. I was engaging in sarcasm at my own expense by claiming it to be the most interesting thread here of all time. I thought the tongue smiley clarified that it was not a serious response, but evidently there are too many non-sarcastic uses for that smiley.

I was thus surprised at your response. Unless its a sneer at the lameness of my sarcasm.

And there, that has to be one of the most boring posts of all time. And thats not sarcasm.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Then I'll explain it to you. I knew very well why my laptop RAM thread was boring to most everyone except, well, certain computer nerds, and to myself, who am interested in it almost purely because its useful to me. I was engaging in sarcasm at my own expense by claiming it to be the most interesting thread here of all time. I thought the tongue smiley clarified that it was not a serious response, but evidently there are too many non-sarcastic uses for that smiley.

I was thus surprised at your response. Unless its a sneer at the lameness of my sarcasm.

And there, that has to be one of the most boring posts of all time. And thats not sarcasm.

This is why it's no fun. Suffice it to say that I knew what you meant by your post, with or without the smilie.