Yay! I voted in a real election

[Fake Boris]

Since Galis has shown himself to be a theologian, now would be time to discuss contemplation of 'noble and magnificent objects'.

Adam Smith, The Theory of Moral Sentiments:

The perfection of police, the extension of trade and manufactures, are noble and magnificent objects. The contemplation of them pleases us, and we are interested in whatever can tend to advance them. […] We take pleasure in beholding the perfection of so beautiful and so grand a system, and we are uneasy till we remove that can in the least disturb or encumber the regularity of its motions.

[…]

In the same manner, if you would implant public virtue in the breast of him who seems heedless of the interest of his country, […] you will be more likely to persuade, if you describe the great system of public police which procures these advantages, — if you explain the connections and dependencies of its several parts, their mutual subordination to one another, and their general subserviency to the happiness of society.

[Victor Galis]

Possibly the greatest non sequitur I've ever seen.

[Nostromo]

I am deeply offended.

Sorry, but its hard to like someone who has a hard time hiding his contempt for us, his total lack of understanding and solidarity.

And, yes, I think that trying to discuss these issues with you is pointless. I tried once. What a huge waste of my time that was! We were talking past each other. I wondered why. I now think its because there's not enough common ground between us on that topic. At least, I can discuss these issues with a québécois federalist. But not with you. Trying to do so would be like trying to convince Lord Durham himself.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by nostromo


Sorry, but its hard to like someone who has a hard time hiding his contempt for us, his total lack of understanding and solidarity.

Yes, but trolling implies a certain malice and dishonesty. It dismisses legitimate complaints about the state of affairs in Quebec and shows exactly why I have no respect for your position.

And, yes, I think that trying to discuss these issues with you is pointless. I tried once. What a huge waste of my time that was! We were talking past each other. I wondered why. I now think its because there's not enough common ground between us on that topic. At least, I can discuss these issues with a québécois federalist. But not with you. Trying to do so would be like trying to convince Lord Durham himself.

I am still amazed that separatists can't understand why anglophones in Quebec might have a strong dislike for the PQ and its partisans. Of course there's no common ground. You act like you are all victims when the balance of power shifted decades ago, and now it's your turn to marginalize the Anglo minority.

[Fake Boris]

Suck it up Galis... The list of your enormities is staggering, but this one interests me the most:

You act like you are all victims

How and when did we do so?

I am still amazed that separatists can't understand why anglophones in Quebec might have a strong dislike for the PQ and its partisans.

We do very well, thank you very much. But I only see one way to qualify this:

Yeah, indoctrination of a new generation of separatists is fine.

Utter. Mental. Retardation.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Suck it up Galis... The list of your enormities is staggering, but this one interests me the most:

You act like you are all victims

How and when did we do so?

I present you a quote from the previous post:

Sorry, but its hard to like someone who has a hard time hiding his contempt for us, his total lack of understanding and solidarity.

I'm supposed to somehow sympathise with your positions? Is there something in there that requires my sympathy unless you see yourselves as having been oppressed at some point by the Anglos? Solidarity implies in a certain sense that you are fighting something. You deny that you are slowly trying to eliminate the English language from Quebec, so all I am left to assume is that you feel you are fighting a defensive battle against foreign influence or something.

I am still amazed that separatists can't understand why anglophones in Quebec might have a strong dislike for the PQ and its partisans.

We do very well, thank you very much. But I only see one way to qualify this:

Yeah, indoctrination of a new generation of separatists is fine.

Utter. Mental. Retardation.

Do you deny then that someone, just a few pages ago, gleefully announced that separatist aspirations were up among the youth? Do you not see how this might relate to forcing English-speaking immigrants into French-language schooling? Or... oh, I understand... your response contains the reason you fail to see this link

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Do you deny then that someone, just a few pages ago, gleefully announced that separatist aspirations were up among the youth? Do you not see how this might relate to forcing English-speaking immigrants into French-language schooling? Or... oh, I understand... your response contains the reason you fail to see this link

Again: Quebec's official language is french. If you come here from another country you are provided with free education in french. That is the deal.
We're 5-6 million french speakers in an ocean of english Victor: this is how we protect our culture.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Victor Galis


It's not an issue of being able to survive, it's an issue of the language in which I am addressed. 15 years ago it would have been English, now it's French. Obviously after I begin speaking English back to them they are forced to continue in English. Don't get me wrong, I survived in Provence using my French, I just don't see why in a bilingual country I should be expected to use one language or the other.

What the hell?


You say that in a bilingual country, you shouldn't be expected to use one language or the other, then you go on to say that you expect people to adress you in english? Even though, if adressed in french, and you answer bazck in english, they are content to switch to english?

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
My first vote ever was against Ronald Reagan

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Victor Galis


Yes, but trolling implies a certain malice and dishonesty. It dismisses legitimate complaints about the state of affairs in Quebec and shows exactly why I have no respect for your position.

I didn't say you were trolling. Read my post, damnit. And when I said

Sorry, but its hard to like someone who has a hard time hiding his contempt for us, his total lack of understanding and solidarity.

By "us" I wasn't refering to separatists, but to all francophone quebecers. You have a hard time hiding your contempt for us, the francophone majority.

For the record, I voted yes at the last referendum. But I'm not so sure anymore. I'll have to think about it. But I do have the interests of "la nation québécoise" very much at heart.

But I'm not wasting my time arguing with you, its no use. I tried to put myself in your shoes up to certain point, in order to understand you POV. But when you resolutely refuse to put yourself in my shoes, and those of all other francophone quebecers, why bother? Because of that, you can't even begin to understand why we do what we do. Instead, you try to explain them with those BS conspiracy theories of yours: yes, Victor, we're out to get the anglos

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Richelieu


Again: Quebec's official language is french. If you come here from another country you are provided with free education in french. That is the deal.
We're 5-6 million french speakers in an ocean of english Victor: this is how we protect our culture.

Right, so you make no claim that you aren't trying to wipe out English in Quebec as a defense of your culture. Maybe you see this as natural and not at all bad. That's at least honest.

You say that in a bilingual country, you shouldn't be expected to use one language or the other, then you go on to say that you expect people to adress you in english? Even though, if adressed in french, and you answer bazck in english, they are content to switch to english?

The person who gets paid to serve me should have to switch. You're responding to the quote out of context though. 15 years ago, I would have been addressed in English almost anywhere I went west of St. Laurent, now I am being addressed in French a vast majority of the time. The point was one of expectations based on previous experience.

By "us" I wasn't refering to separatists, but to all francophone quebecers. You have a hard time hiding your contempt for us, the francophone majority.

I have contempt for all separatists everywhere and their sympathisers. I have no particular dislike of the francophone majority for any reason other than the strength of its support for separatists.

But I'm not wasting my time arguing with you, its no use. I tried to put myself in your shoes up to certain point, in order to understand you POV. But when you resolutely refuse to put yourself in my shoes, and those of all other francophone quebecers, why bother? Because of that, you can't even begin to understand why we do what we do. Instead, you try to explain them with those BS conspiracy theories of yours: yes, Victor, we're out to get the anglos

So stop responding then. This wasn't a thread about separatism, though I suppose I can see how it devolved in that direction. Your refusal to recognize that the Quebec's attempts to "protect French culture" is driving Anglos out of the province is disingenious at best. It's alright, I see little possibility of finding a job here long term and you'll be rid of me soon enough, I think.

[Nostromo]

Your refusal to recognize that the Quebec's attempts to "protect French culture" is driving Anglos out of the province is disingenious at best.

According to Wikipedia,

The absolute number and the share of native English speakers has dropped significantly during the past forty years (from 13.8% in 1951 to just 8% in 2001) due to a net outmigration to other Canadian provinces.

Its a fact and I never denied it. Now, if we assume that most of them left because of the measures we took to protect our culture, its an unfortunate and unintentional consequence of those measures. The purpose of these measures wasn't to drive out the anglos. I repeat: the purpose of these measures wasn't to drive out the anglos. I have absolutely no beef against the anglos, believe me. I have a hard time understanding why they would leave simply because of that. Its not like they were persecuted or anything. Maybe it was a matter of principles, because they categorically refuse to accept that:

- We have culture, different from theirs

- That our culture is in jeopardy

- We need to take some measures to protect it

A lot of anglos and a lot of immigrants (like you) refuse even to acknowledge these issues. But they are real issues that should be adressed.

And contrary to what you seem to think, I very much care about the rights and freedoms of the anglo population. But I also care very much about the future of our culture. So its a balancing act between the two. But if you don't give a flying **** about our culture, things get a lot simpler. If you'd only acknowledge the issues that most french speaking Quebecer care about, you'd see how the problem can become complex and we could discuss these matters, instead of having a dialogue of the deaf. Maybe you'd even accept to put a little water in your wine.

[Q Classic]

Ah, the French-speaking Quebecois. Their combined population reaches the millions, their combined IQ the tens.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by nostromo

Its a fact and I never denied it. Now, if we assume that most of them left because of the measures we took to protect our culture, its an unfortunate and unintentional consequence of those measures. The purpose of these measures wasn't to drive out the anglos. I repeat: the purpose of these measures wasn't to drive out the anglos. I have absolutely no beef against the anglos, believe me. I have a hard time understanding why they would leave simply because of that. Its not like they were persecuted or anything. Maybe it was a matter of principles, because they categorically refuse to accept that:

- We have culture, different from theirs

- That our culture is in jeopardy

- We need to take some measures to protect it

A lot of anglos and a lot of immigrants (like you) refuse even to acknowledge these issues. But they are real issues that should be adressed.[/quote]

Your numbers are increasing. I simply refuse to believe your claims that your culture is in danger when you are doing such a nice job of increasing your numbers. Maybe those were valid concerns in the 60s and 70s. That time is long past.

And contrary to what you seem to think, I very much care about the rights and freedoms of the anglo population. But I also care very much about the future of our culture. So its a balancing act between the two. But if you don't give a flying **** about our culture, things get a lot simpler. If you'd only acknowledge the issues that most french speaking Quebecer care about, you'd see how the problem can become complex and we could discuss these matters, instead of having a dialogue of the deaf. Maybe you'd even accept to put a little water in your wine.

I understand your views, I simply believe they have no basis in reality. Also, I generally don't see legislation as being the best way to preserve a culture. If it's worth protecting, it should be able to do so without laws designed at the expense of minorities.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
I understand your views, I simply believe they have no basis in reality. Also, I generally don't see legislation as being the best way to preserve a culture. If it's worth protecting, it should be able to do so without laws designed at the expense of minorities.

Financially worth?

Because when it comes to the financial aspect of culture, English is a ****ing behemoth.