NYC police spied on left-wing dissidents

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Cuz there's only one group that calls for political violence as part of these demonstrations, the Black Bloc. They don't organize openly. Even overt commies like me call for non-violence, if for no other reason than the cops will win almost any fight and people could get killed. We still defend demonstrators' right to self-defense, but starting a fight with a cop or touching a car is little more than political masturbation. It only alienates those with whom we are trying to communicate. It is counter-productive.

Very. Plans made well in advance for Seattle that resulted in the obvious have been a bit of a setback.

Incidently, is this bit wrong?

From these operations, run by the department’s “R.N.C. Intelligence Squad,” the police identified a handful of groups and individuals who expressed interest in creating havoc during the convention, as well as some who used Web sites to urge or predict violence.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Victor Galis

Because there should be independent checks on such investigations to ensure they don't get out of hand. It's not so hard to keep an eye on a single organization like the FBI. Making sure that each city's police doesn't turn into the Stasi is massivly expensive and stupid given that you have national law-enforcement agencies specifically set up to deal with things that are beyond the purview of individual cities.

I doubt we ever would have heard about all this if the FBI had done it all on a scale 10 times the NYPD.

[chequita guevara]

Black Bloc, more likely than not. And how much of that was the work of provocateurs, don't know.

I don't really have a lot of patience for anarchists in general. And the violent ones I have absolutely no use for. As far as I'm concerned, it has less to do with political principles and more to do with hooliganism and being thugs in an "acceptable" manner. Kinda like how Anti Racist Action was little more than an excuse to beat up on people, even if those people were racist skinheads and other white supremacists. They simply found an "acceptable" outlet for their violence.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I doubt we ever would have heard about all this if the FBI had done it all on a scale 10 times the NYPD.

I don't. Well, I might have heard of it. You're hearing about this because the NYTimes covers the NYPD.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Black Bloc, more likely than not. And how much of that was the work of provocateurs, don't know.

I believe you are familiar with groups in the US. Are you so confident about knowing everybody in Canada and Europe?

Bush and the Republicans were very unpopular at the time. I don't find it in the least bit surprising that the NYPD wanted to know more about what was coming for the RNC.

[chequita guevara]

Like I said, really not an issue for me. Let the police spy on me. I'm not breaking the law. I'm not doing anything secret. If I was a citizen of NYC, I might be upset about how the police were spending my money.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I believe you are familiar with groups in the US. Are you so confident about knowing everybody in Canada and Europe?

Bush and the Republicans were very unpopular at the time. I don't find it in the least bit surprising that the NYPD wanted to know more about what was coming for the RNC.

You keep conflating the desire of the NYPD to be prepared with the rightness of their actions. Of course they wanted as much info as possible. But, again, here's the relevant bit:

...traveled to cities across the country, Canada and Europe to conduct covert observations of people who planned to protest at the convention, according to police records and interviews.

"Covert observations" = actual police investigation. That's not phoning up the RCMP and asking, "Hey, Dudley Dooright, who are your bad guys, eh?" That's not even going to the US Embassy and asking the FBI guy detailed there if he can look into something for you (which is how this is properly done). That's going way the hell outside your jurisdiction and conducting police work. Regardless of what might justify it (and I doubt anything did), that's a no-no.

[DinoDoc]

It was an excuse for a paid vacation, Rufus. Would you pretend to spy on a group of smelly hippies for a free trip to Paris?

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Guynemer
Thank you, Kuci. I can't believe how many people are missing the point entirely.

I'm not missing it. I just see it as a logical continuation of the US' fascist foreign policy...

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
"Covert observations" = actual police investigation. That's not phoning up the RCMP and asking, "Hey, Dudley Dooright, who are your bad guys, eh?" That's not even going to the US Embassy and asking the FBI guy detailed there if he can look into something for you (which is how this is properly done). That's going way the hell outside your jurisdiction and conducting police work. Regardless of what might justify it (and I doubt anything did), that's a no-no.

Why? If the local authorities know they are doing it and said 'go ahead', where's the no-no?

You think that locals would devote resources to this? Who was going to do it?

[Wezil]

I'm curious to know if local authorities were notified. Based upon past reports my guess would be "no".

[Straybow]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
...We still defend demonstrators' right to self-defense, but starting a fight with a cop or touching a car is little more than political masturbation. It only alienates those with whom we are trying to communicate. It is counter-productive.

Protests are "political masturbation" rather than attempts to "communicate." I can almost guarantee you nobody in that convention gave a crap about what any of the protestors say or think.

[Fake Boris]

Bewildering cleverness here - obviously the rally was attempting to enroll dedicated Republican attendees.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Straybow

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
...We still defend demonstrators' right to self-defense, but starting a fight with a cop or touching a car is little more than political masturbation. It only alienates those with whom we are trying to communicate. It is counter-productive.

Protests are "political masturbation" rather than attempts to "communicate." I can almost guarantee you nobody in that convention gave a crap about what any of the protestors say or think.

No, probably not, but it sure made a big impression across the world.