This would probably fall under a "need for crowd control". Remember - the police are experts at creating, using, and exploiting loopholes.
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NYC police spied on left-wing dissidents
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Of course not. With a loophole that large, the ruling is meaningless."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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Originally posted by notyoueither
Seattle, for a political event. I said event, not convention. Was it lunacy to expect trouble at Bush's party?
Since then, the only group that has planned violence at any events has been the group calling itself the Black Bloc. Note, that this is not the group that was infiltrated. Here in South Florida, the police infiltrated that well known hot bed of revolutionary violence, the American Friends Service Committee, also known as the Quakers. They weren't the only ones. Before the FTAA demonstrations, the police infiltrated and harassed the hippie anarchists who had a warehouse for building those fearsome terrorist devices, giant puppets. Now the police are in deep **** because the evidence of their unprovoked violence is overwhelming. They're facing disciplinary hearings and lawsuits.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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Originally posted by Ramo
Of course not. With a loophole that large, the ruling is meaningless.
“All our activities were legal and were subject in advance to Handschu review,” Mr. Browne said.(\__/)
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Originally posted by notyoueither
Honest question.
Would trying to know about plans to riot count under 'need for crowd control'?Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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Originally posted by notyoueither
Well then I would say the ruling is meaningless in your opinion if this guy is right:
“All our activities were legal and were subject in advance to Handschu review,” Mr. Browne said.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Wasn't planned. Largely, violence on the demonstrators' party was a reaction to being assaulted by the police for engaging in civil disobedience. The only act of violence engaged in by the demonstrators prior to the police assault was the actions of six anarchists who trashed a Starbucks. It should also be noted that it was demonstrators who stopped them and tried to hold them until police came, except the police never came. In one especially egregious case, the police cordoned off a neighborhood where no demonstrations were occurring, Capital Hill. It is, however, where the freaks, and punks, and homeless kids, and gays congregate. Then the police attacked.
Since then, the only group that has planned violence at any events has been the group calling itself the Black Bloc. Note, that this is not the group that was infiltrated. Here in South Florida, the police infiltrated that well known hot bed of revolutionary violence, the American Friends Service Committee, also known as the Quakers. They weren't the only ones. Before the FTAA demonstrations, the police infiltrated and harassed the hippie anarchists who had a warehouse for building those fearsome terrorist devices, giant puppets. Now the police are in deep **** because the evidence of their unprovoked violence is overwhelming. They're facing disciplinary hearings and lawsuits.
Incidently, you say unplanned. Others say otherwise. Who to believe? Big dilemma.(\__/)
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As far as jurisdiction goes, in the U.S., the police are only allowed to act in the political entity that created them, unless they have agreements with other political entities. In the 1930s, it used to be enough for bank robbers to cross state lines to escape pursuing police. Now days, most states have treaties allowing cops to cross the border when they are in pursuit. However, unless they are working with another jurisdiction, they cannot conduct surveillance of suspected criminals. The NYPD can't wiretap mobsters in New Jersey, without the cooperation of the relevant Jersey police departments. Even then, the police can't simply tap every Italian family's phone simply because some Italians are in the Mob.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Of course the police are going to say they did everything legally. Do you really expect them to say, "Oh we totally broke that rule."?
I also expect Ramo and others to say they are wrong, or broke the law.
Neither side is convincing on their own.(\__/)
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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Of course the police are going to say they did everything legally. Do you really expect them to say, "Oh we totally broke that rule."?
If the police want to do something, they can almost always find a loophole that allows them to do it. I know that (here, atleast) there are a variety of loopholes set up that allow the police to legaly arrest anyone they want without any concrete reason.Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse
Do It Ourselves
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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
As far as jurisdiction goes, in the U.S., the police are only allowed to act in the political entity that created them, unless they have agreements with other political entities. In the 1930s, it used to be enough for bank robbers to cross state lines to escape pursuing police. Now days, most states have treaties allowing cops to cross the border when they are in pursuit. However, unless they are working with another jurisdiction, they cannot conduct surveillance of suspected criminals. The NYPD can't wiretap mobsters in New Jersey, without the cooperation of the relevant Jersey police departments. Even then, the police can't simply tap every Italian family's phone simply because some Italians are in the Mob.(\__/)
(='.'=)
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Originally posted by notyoueither
Incidently, you say unplanned. Others say otherwise. Who to believe? Big dilemma.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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Originally posted by notyoueither
Why the difference between the FBI and the NYPD? Was the FBI responsible for the security of the streets surrounding the convention and the city at large?
As for the hypothetical, I thought violence at major political events in the US, and some other places, stopped being a subject of conjecture some time ago."The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
-Joan Robinson
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Originally posted by notyoueither
And if they asked the foreign authorities?And besides, I think the police have a right to attend a public meeting. Maybe they'll sympathize.
It's the provocateurs you have to worry about. The ones who come in and try to organize people to break the law, and then arrest them. That happened to those seven guys in Miami. You know the ones that supposedly were trying to get help from al-Qaeda to blow up the Sears Tower, but didn't even have enough money to by shoes. There was an FBI agent here who tried that, but no one bit. She got transfered out West, and talked three guys into doing something stupid, and now they're in prison doing hard time.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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