NYC police spied on left-wing dissidents

[notyoueither]

Hmm. Canada has sent police to Mexico to look at an investigation in a notorious case. The perception is that the Mexicans are blowing the case off. A lot of attention has been paid to something that was not a crime committed in Canada.

I also recall Canadian police travelling to foreign countries looking for leads in fraud cases (among others). The locals wouldn't spend resources looking up paperwork or asking someone questions, so it only makes sense from time to time to have locals go over there.

I also seem to recall a recent high-profile case in the States that involved an American in Cambodia, was it? Local or State police were in the foreign country asking questions of a suspect. Is that 'never'?

[notyoueither]

Point is, I don't see a problem with a local agency sending people outside their jurisdiction to do their jobs, like gathering intelligence on what might happen at an upcoming political event that could be a flashpoint for people looking to make trouble.

If the right things are done, like ask the local authorities, officers act appropriately since they have no powers of police when they are travelling, etc, I see no problem with it.

I have no idea if the NYPD did it right or not. I am simply questioning the knee-jerk response that it must have been bad.

[Ramo]

The point is that police actions should be commensurate with the potential threat. Part of the issue has to do with the the types of organizations being surveilled. Street theatrics are hardly comparable to kiddie porn rings. From the article:

A vast majority of several hundred reports reviewed by The Times, including field reports and the digests, described groups that gave no obvious sign of wrongdoing.

Thus we're not just talking about an assault on civil liberties, but a massive waste of money...

[DaShi]

Guilty until proven innocent.

[General Ludd]

Technically speaking, I don't think there really is anything that is outside the jurisdiction of the RCMP - they seem like they're pretty much a do-everything organization.

[Kuciwalker]

And they're certainly more comparable to the FBI than the NYPD.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Hmm. Canada has sent police to Mexico to look at an investigation in a notorious case. The perception is that the Mexicans are blowing the case off. A lot of attention has been paid to something that was not a crime committed in Canada.

1) As others have already said, if you're talking about the RCMP, that's a whole different matter. If we were talking about the FBI here, it would be a different conversation entirely. But if you really mean that the Toronto Police Service conducts investigations in Mexico, well, that's not how we do things down here...supposedly, anyway.

2) We haven't even gotten into the difference between investigating the commission of a crime, investigating the possible commission of a specific crime, and investigation of the hypothetical possiblility of an unspecified crime. That third possibility, which we're talking about here, stretches the mandate of the police even with their own jurisdiction.

[notyoueither]

Why the difference between the FBI and the NYPD? Was the FBI responsible for the security of the streets surrounding the convention and the city at large?

As for the hypothetical, I thought violence at major political events in the US, and some other places, stopped being a subject of conjecture some time ago.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by notyoueither

As for the hypothetical, I thought violence at major political events in the US, and some other places, stopped being a subject of conjecture some time ago.

Yeah, kent state was probably one of the bigger eye-openers for alot of people.

[Kuciwalker]

Why the difference between the FBI and the NYPD?

Are you really this dense?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Why the difference between the FBI and the NYPD? Was the FBI responsible for the security of the streets surrounding the convention and the city at large?

Jurisdiction. What's the difference between the RCMP and the TPS?

As for the hypothetical, I thought violence at major political events in the US, and some other places, stopped being a subject of conjecture some time ago.

Really? Can you show me an instance of planned criminal violence at a US political convention, perpetrated with malice aforethought by left-wing dissidents, in the last 25 years? For bonus points, make it an instance serious enough to require an international investigation.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


Jurisdiction. What's the difference between the RCMP and the TPS?

Neither have jurisdiction in Mexico. Why should either ever go there?

Why wasn't it the FBI that went to interview the guy who was admitting to the Ramsey murder?

Really? Can you show me an instance of planned criminal violence at a US political convention, perpetrated with malice aforethought by left-wing dissidents, in the last 25 years? For bonus points, make it an instance serious enough to require an international investigation.

Seattle, for a political event. I said event, not convention. Was it lunacy to expect trouble at Bush's party?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Why the difference between the FBI and the NYPD?

Are you really this dense?

No, but apparently you are.

Was the FBI responsible for the security of the streets surrounding the convention and the city at large?

[Ramo]

That third possibility, which we're talking about here, stretches the mandate of the police even with their own jurisdiction.

More than stretches it. The Handschu consent decree prohibits NYPD surveillance of political meetings in the absence of evidence of wrong-doing or the need for crowd control.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ramo


More than stretches it. The Handschu consent decree prohibits NYPD surveillance of political meetings in the absence of evidence of wrong-doing or the need for crowd control.

Honest question.

Would trying to know about plans to riot count under 'need for crowd control'?