The consequences of the Anglo-saxon influence on the EU future

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by pchang


DAVOUT

Sorry pchang, but VJ is the source.

[pchang]

You didn't refute it

that makes it look like you agree

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by BeBro


Well, that's nonsense.

no its not

[Spiffor]

Re: Re: The consequences of the Anglo-saxon influence on the EU future

Originally posted by Saras
Military?

Don't laugh, it's in the constitution:
Article I-41

3. Member States shall make civilian and military capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy, to contribute to the objectives defined by the Council. Those Member States which together establish multinational forces may also make them available to the common security and defence policy.

Member States shall undertake progressively to improve their military capabilities. An Agency in the field of defence capabilities development, research, acquisition and armaments (European Defence Agency) shall be established to identify operational requirements, to promote measures to satisfy those requirements, to contribute to identifying and, where appropriate, implementing any measure needed to strengthen the industrial and technological base of the defence sector, to participate in defining a European capabilities and armaments policy, and to assist the Council in evaluating the improvement of military capabilities.

[Geronimo]

Re: Re: Re: What exactly

Originally posted by DAVOUT


I have not yet heard the UK confirming they will accept to give up their veto more than France has accepted. Those who wanted the enlargement before the ratification of the treatise have granted vetoes to 12 more states. We have absolutely no incentive to give up our veto under the present conditions.
As for the responsibility to kill the EU, does it belong to the country which has altered its original purpose, or to the country which does not accept this alteration.

The original purpose being to subsidize french farmers with foreign tribute from all of it's vassal states?

(you haven't clearly stated what the original purpose of the intended federation is.)

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
Yes I know

a few weeks ago the minister of economy of France called Brazil Argentina Australia and New Zealand "predators" who would destroy the french lifestyle if France drops their farm subsidies

That just goes to show what a partisan political hack the economic minister of France is. France is a protectionist nation which doesn't want to have to face the free market where everyone has an equal chance of succeeding no matter what country they are from. France wants subsidies and tariffs to prevent other countries from being on an equal footing while the free market approach, what Devout calls the "Anglo-Saxon" approach, thinks that there should be no tariffs and that every company should be free to compete as they please (meaning in a manner they think will make them the most money).

The countries which currently champeon free trade have not always been ideal examples of free traders but if everyone pushes for an open and transparent system then the ground work will be set. The U.S. did end all of its agricultural subsidies in the 1990's because it believed the EU's claim that if the US eliminated subsidies then the EU would follow and also eliminate subsidies. The EU did not eliminate subsidies and in fact France pushed the EU into increasing the EU's agricultural subsidies. This is when the US gave up and reintroduced agricultural subsidies.

To this day there are many in the US who would like to see agricultural subsidies abolished however we can't do it until the EU stops giving massive amounts of free money away to its farmers. To do so would be suicidal to U.S. farmers but we continue to hope that some accommodation can be reached where agricultural subsidies on both sides of the Atlantic could be abolished thus ending the massive trade distortions they cause and end the economic hardship they cause on the world's third world nations. Personally, I think ag subsidies are the single worst thing ever committed in the modern world as they impoverish the third world farmer and allow the first world farmer to sit on his ass doing nothing. It is a terrible thing which wastes huge amounts of money and creates misery world wide.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Oerdin
To this day there are many in the US who would like to see agricultural subsidies abolished however we can't do it until the EU stops giving massive amounts of free money away to its farmers. To do so would be suicidal to U.S. farmers but we continue to hope that some accommodation can be reached where agricultural subsidies on both sides of the Atlantic could be abolished thus ending the massive trade distortions they cause and end the economic hardship they cause on the world's third world nations. Personally, I think ag subsidies are the single worst thing ever committed in the modern world as they impoverish the third world farmer and allow the first world farmer to sit on his ass doing nothing. It is a terrible thing which wastes huge amounts of money and creates misery world wide.

QFT

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Next, in the OP you claimed that it was all the UK's fault that the Constitution wasn't passed (claiming the UK only wanted free trade) but a short look at the facts shows that is not the case. The people who sank the proposed constitution were France and Holland. The UK did not influence those people into voting no to any appreciable degree. They voted no all on their own.

The Dutch and French voted no over a text. This text is the result of negociations between member-states. Britain had a significant influence over this text (though they aren't the only ones), as they were perceived as the one country that had to be most flattered, so that there would be a chance the text would be adopted.

As a result, the text was quite heavy with the laissez-faire obsession that occurs in Britain, as well as in Eastern Europe (whose bargaining power wasn't nearly as high). Those laissez-faire constitutional demands weighted heavily on the French debate. If the French debate had been only about EU vs sovereignity, the Oui would have won hands down.
The Brits aren't the only ones responsible for the strong laissez-faire policies in the constitution, far from it. But they definitely had an influence in it. If the EU elites had wanted to pander to the French instead, the text would have been quite different in this regard.

[Dauphin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What exactly

Originally posted by Geronimo


The original purpose being to subsidize french farmers with foreign tribute from all of it's vassal states?

(you haven't clearly stated what the original purpose of the intended federation is.)

Prevention of war was the intention. Far more important than federation (which is also mentioned from the outset) in my opinion.

[Spiffor]

Personally, I think ag subsidies are the single worst thing ever committed in the modern world as they impoverish the third world farmer and allow the first world farmer to sit on his ass doing nothing.

at the bolded part.

[Pekka]

New EU poem, called "We will rise once again".

poem edited

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Sandman
I'd be genuinely interested to know what sort of anti-nuclear weapons movement there is in France. I'm guessing not much of one.

There are some pacifist groups who put it high on the agenda.
Some parties have it on their party-platform. But generally, there's a consensus that MAD just works.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DAVOUT


The end of agricultural subsidises has already been decided to occur in 2013. I am sure that the whole population of Europe (except France) will enjoy the change in prices of food resulting from this improvement.

Indeed the double payments will end. No longer will Europeans pay once for food via taxation then pay a second time when they go to the store. They will be able to only pay once for their food.

[Solly]

Originally posted by _BuRjaCi_
A Europe of two speeds is direly needed.

(But why do you want the Italians? )

And if the French and Germans don't want the urgently needed market reforms, they can drop by the wayside while the likes of the UK, Ireland, Spain, and the Eastern Europe bloc forge ahead with this policy consensus.

[Colon™]

Reforms in Eastern Europe?