The consequences of the Anglo-saxon influence on the EU future

[TheStinger]

Re: Re: Re: The consequences of the Anglo-saxon influence on the EU future

Originally posted by DAVOUT


So I must understand that the UK have positively contributed to the original goals of the EU, despite a population expressing a satisfaction lower than 40%, declining, and always the lowest of the union.

Hang on, so the UK has to contribute so the French feel better

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by TheStinger
Lets look at the founding 6 nations

Germany- felt guilty becasue they kept invading the French so did what they were told
Italy-Basket case needed access to French markets so did what they were told
Belgium-Basicaly french
Netherlands-Always liked trading so happy to join
Luxembourg-who cares
France- wnated to set up something they were in charge of and knew those 5 other members would do as they were told.

Well, that's nonsense.

[Dinner]

Re: Re: Re: The consequences of the Anglo-saxon influence on the EU future

Originally posted by DAVOUT


So I must understand that the UK have positively contributed to the original goals of the EU, despite a population expressing a satisfaction lower than 40%, declining, and always the lowest of the union.

First of all it has not always been lower; by looking at the graph I attached you can see a number of other nations had lower satisfaction then the UK's citizens and France's own citizens' happiness with the EU was very near the UK's level a few years ago.

Next, in the OP you claimed that it was all the UK's fault that the Constitution wasn't passed (claiming the UK only wanted free trade) but a short look at the facts shows that is not the case. The people who sank the proposed constitution were France and Holland. The UK did not influence those people into voting no to any appreciable degree. They voted no all on their own.

[DAVOUT]

The enlargement was the major cause of the present EU crisis. The voters realized that a decision with brutal consequences (the EU became from this day almost impossible to manage) had been make without being informed, let alone consulted. They also realized that more was to come. They observed that the EU institutions had to be reformed to be adapted to the new situation.
The UK was for nothing in that mess. But the Prime Minister announced that a referendum will be done in due time. Now it has been cancelled, and I dont know how the constitutional treatise will be ratified, if it is ever.
If the UK had been strongly influencial in the last enlargement and still support further enlargements, and if it does not ratified the treatise which was supposed to adapt the EU institutions to the new situation, it is only bad luck for the EU of course.

[DAVOUT]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The consequences of the Anglo-saxon influence on the EU future

Originally posted by Oerdin


First of all it has not always been lower; by looking at the graph I attached you can see a number of other nations had lower satisfaction then the UK's citizens and France's own citizens' happiness with the EU was very near the UK's level a few years ago.

Next, in the OP you claimed that it was all the UK's fault that the Constitution wasn't passed (claiming the UK only wanted free trade) but a short look at the facts shows that is not the case. The people who sank the proposed constitution were France and Holland. The UK did not influence those people into voting no to any appreciable degree. They voted no all on their own.

Sorry I took the UK rank in your graph; it is true that in 96 Sweden and Austria were lower.
I agree also that the countries which sank the Constitution were France and Holland, but they did so because they desagree with the road of free trade above all and enlargement which are cases consistently advocated by the UK.

[Arrian]

Clearly the EU is well on its way to establishing itself as a powerful counterbalance to the crazy cowboy Americans. Just a few minor details to sort out first...



-Arrian

[Saras]

Intra-EU free trade and enlargement brought and still brings prosperity and a better life to millions of Central & Eastern Europeans. Are you saying French voters would have objected to enlargement had it been put up for referendum? They did that to Norway in 1962 and 1967 .

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Saras
Intra-EU free trade and enlargement brought and still brings prosperity and a better life to millions of Central & Eastern Europeans. Are you saying French voters would have objected to enlargement had it been put up for referendum? They did that to Norway in 1962 and 1967 .

The argument is that the EU institutions should have been adapted BEFORE the enlargement. If it had been done, we would not be now in a situation were the budget contributed by the old members is at the same level than before, for instance, which prevent the new members to receive the same help than previous incoming menbers had receive (but apparently it was not necessary for their prosperity!). And without the changes included in the Constitution, the current decision process will prevent useful changes; which means that the Union will not move..

[Sprayber]

Now that the EU has been successfully crippled, We can move on to other threats..

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Now that the EU has been successfully crippled, We can move on to other threats..

quod erat demonstrandum

[Pekka]

BeBro, but Finland is still a net contributor, well, at least a while ago it was.

You know, one of those countries that pay more because few big members can't be bothered to pay their full membership fee. You know, that fair stuff.

Also one of the few countries that actually TRIES to follow the common rules, not like countries who don 't and then won't get penalized for it.

[DanS]

I love this thread.

[Barnabas]

Who dominates the eu, France or Germany?

[VetLegion]

Let's see, Finland in 2006: presided over EU, won Eurovision, was claimed by those American institutes to be both most competitive and least corrupt country in the world, had the warmest winter in history. I wonder what would it take for Pekka to stop whining

[BeBMan]